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Art critique and advice; beginner artists are welcome to post here; includes an oekaki. (NO FLAMES)

Artists, read before posting!

Before you post your art to ask for critique, please read these tutorials. They explain the basic principles of drawing and figure drawing. Most posts where these basics are missing will never get a response, as people are quite frankly sick and bored of explaining over and over that you would have to pretty much learn how to draw first, before you could improve.

Courtesy of Arne Niklas Jansson: Basic and comprehensive drawing and painting tutorial
Courtesy of Bakaneko: Figure Drawing Basics, Further Anatomy, Hands

These were brought to my attention by Aeresque#Artist. Courtesy of Scribd: Drawing the Human head, Drawing Dynamic Hands, Dynamic Figure Drawing
And for those of you who want it a bit easier, we also have the whole thing as one neat rar with all three books in pdf form.

NEW! These were brought to my attention by MajorTom in #fchan. Courtesy of Andrew Loomis: Creative Illustration, Drawing the Head and Hands, Eye Of The Painter, Figure drawing for all it's worth, Fun with a Pencil, Successful Drawing, Drawing Dynamic Hands.

If you think you know a good basic tutorial that would fit in here, feel free to contact me under Xenofur in IRC and I will add the link.





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[-] [+] No.507
light source questions 
File: Razak_comm.jpg -(203292 B, 514x800)
203292 No.507 507

I'm probably gonna hear much about how my colours are way too bright and how they give everyone headaches. but aside from that I noticed the shading on the muzzle looks good but the rest of it looks way off. I gather that's because my light source is correctly placed on the muzzle but for the rest I went farther off in one direction. At the angle the muzzle is on it should cast no shadows on the tail and so forth. and the tail and leg shouldn't have any shading due to the light source being just to the right of the viewer. Am I correct in this or should I go back to the drawing board?

No.508 - Link Reply Report 508

>>507
Shading and such should be the very least of your worries. More importantly are thing like the utterly lazy anime face. Click the "drawing the human head" link at the top of the board and go from there until you actually know how to draw eyes.

Secondly, you fucked up the pose, most noticably the right arm. Take that same position and look at yourself in a mirror. Better, get someone to take a picture of you and compare it side by side.

Stop coloring things until you've got these things down.

No.509 - Link Reply Report 509

>>508 yeah I figured I was daft for thinking I'd get help on that here. I wasn't asking about my anatomy because I know it's off. I'm a beginner still. I'm taking classes at the current time for such things. All I was asking about was one particular aspect of the picture.

No.511 - Link Reply Report 511

>>509

Yeah, pretty daft. Try thinking of your character in terms of geometric shapes and planes. That should help. Also, you can draw arrows representing the direction the light is coming from. That helps some.

But Anon had a point. If your anatomy's jacked, then, no matter how good your shading looks, it's just going to be wrong. For example, your character should be turned more to the pole because that pose he's in right now is pretty painful (I'm trying it out now, and my shoulder HURTS). That would change up the shadows a lot.

I kinda disagree on the face thing. It's not too lazy, except the eyes are way too far apart.

For serious, though, Anon's crit was pretty merciful. Some people get a new one ripped for them at the very first go.

No.512 - Link Reply Report 512

>>511
Back when Kizzneth first posted here he did get a new hole.

And I've seen his work off and on since then and it's pretty clear that absolutely nothing we told him stuck.

When I get to you, I'm probably not going to be nice, Kizzy.

No.513 - Link Reply Report 513

>>512

yeah that's pretty much since I've finished very little art since then... I've been practicing or trying to at least

wait why am I even trying to justify anything to you guys. it's not like you'd care what I've been doing so ignore this post now bye bye

No.514 - Link Reply Report 514

>>509
You are getting help. You are simply too proud or lazy to accept that it is the help you really need instead of what you ask for. Make no mistake, this board is not a place where you get your wishes fulfilled. This board is a place where that which you wrought is looked at and taken apart.

And yes, you are a beginner. In more than one way.

What you are trying to do here is construct a house without knowing to calculate the load bearing power the different walls need to have. Yes, it's fucking boring compared to figuring out how to colour the walls and how to shape the window frames.

However, if you don't do that your house is going to suck because it will break apart under its own weight.

Stop neglecting the basics. Stop trying to pretend there are no mistakes by concentrating on the flashy stuff that makes dumb people overlook some of the mistakes.

Oh, also, if you really HAVE problems with shading in your head: Buy pipe cleaner wires and construct some puppets (or get real wooden posing puppets), then shine lights on them.

No.515 - Link Reply Report 515

>>514

I never said there were no mistakes.

No.521 - Link Reply Report 521

>>512

Ah, what a shame. I've seen some very good crits here that have helped me immensely and they weren't even for me! Quite some useful tips here. Shame, shame, shame.

Well, then . . .

No.522 - Link Reply Report 522

>>513
Very little? I'm not going to count but there are - what I guess - around seventy thumbnails of new art in the ten months between when you first posted here and now.

And 'trying to' practice is... what? Just practice. You clearly have time, put some effort into looking at resources and learning.

>so ignore this post now bye bye

Lol, are you telling me off?

You don't want helpful advice whenever I get to it?

Okay then.

No.523 - Link Reply Report 523

>>522

what I'm saying this is well this was not a good pic I did. I posted it here because I wanted a bit of help figuring out why one part looked sort of ok and the rest of that same aspect didn't

I apparently made a mistake posting one of my picks here. thank you for the critiques and comments but I'm still working on alot of stuff. and you think I took nothing into account. well basically all everyone said is work on your anatomy, practice, tone your colours down and so on and so forth.

so yeah sorry for wasting everyones time

File: crit_1263717753564.kizzneth_kizzneth.jpg -(214488 B, 476x1000)
214488 No.525 - Link Reply Report 525

This was the picture you first posted here. The only thing that you have actually changed since posting this is resizing your images.

I see no additional improvements, and this is why I strongly believe you have not taken any information provided to you the first time around into account.

Therefore, everything we told you last time, to STUDY ANATOMY - from the skeleton, to the musculature, to the fat tissue, and then how the flesh lays on that - to STUDY PROPORTION, to not only tone the colors down but DROP THEM altogether so you can study VALUE with BLACK AND WHITE, and whatever the hell "so on and so forth" was, still applies, and you should still be actively working on them, showing that you can indeed make improvements.

There has never been a ten month period in my working with art where I have stagnated. If you're putting effort into improving, it will be noticeable.

No.526 - Link Reply Report 526

>>525
Well, he did stop doing pillow-shading and switched to two-tone shading. Mind you, still an extremely weak change for so much time.

File: Silver_paw.jpg -(155228 B, 623x1000)
155228 No.530 - Link Reply Report 530

>>525

10 months 47 finished pics. That is what I consider not drawing at all. So yeah life hasn't been nice and I haven't been as serious as I want to be with it. Hence taking the drawing class and trying to practice more.

Now why I'm replying is beyond me. Perhaps I'm trying to help you understand where I'm coming from but then again maybe I'm just whining. But yes I do need practice with anatomy and no I haven't had any hard studies of it. though looking at that pic compared to others I've recently done I notice differences albeit subtle ones. such as putting the curvature on the thighs for the quadricep and such. I'm still not so great at showing load bearing but mainly what I've been doing is trying to learn to ink better. Also at showing volume with varying line thicknesses though progress has been slow in that. (having a place to draw would also help as I currently rest the pad in my lap when I do draw.)

Now I submit to you a piece I actually put everything I had into. Which I get the feeling you are going to say the same thing as always and that I've not improved what so ever. (and I'm going against my better judgement on this one) If you could please don't be too mean and harsh.

No.531 - Link Reply Report 531
>get the feeling you are going to say the same thing as always and that I've not improved what so ever

U don' no me
U don' no me at all

No.533 - Link Reply Report 533

I believe I alluded in your FA journal that I was officially worn out.
I concede, essentially, and am giving you advice and going the hell away afterward (this is a lie, clearly I am going to still be 'here'). You owe me a drink in two years.

>>507
The problem with the lighting is that you do not have one set light source. You need to pick one - assuming you're sticking with the basics of one at the moment - and shade according to the form of the character. When dealing with cast shadows, the part that would be, say, the feet or body onto the tail, the further away the edge of the shadow is, the more diffused - or fuzzier - it gets.

In working with shadow, I would suggest dropping the color and just going with straight black and white. If you are able to work out how to effectively work without any half steps, smoothing things out will only be easier.
I would also suggest taking closer note of the spacing on the brush. One of the most annoying things to me is that 25% spacing thing going on. Lower it down as much as you possibly can, and strokes will be much smoother and more appealing.

>>530
To assume that there is no difference between this and the picture posted at >>525 is silly. There clearly is mild improvement. As much as I think you have potential for? Absolutely not.
This next part is going to be long:
The ears do not connect to the head properly. They are just 'symbols' of what you think ears should look like instead of thought out and anatomically sound ears.
Ultimately, if you want to choose to stylize eyes later on, you can do whatever you want, but you should learn how eyes work in the real world first, how they fit in the human skull and how they fit in the animal skull. The subtleties and roundness of them certainly makes something worthwhile of depiction. Emotion can be portrayed genuinely, and your stylizations will be better.

The muzzle looks somewhat haphazard, with the angle of the top of the nose varying drastically from the angle of the mouth itself. The entire thing does not match the angle of his head. He also lacks any sort of chin definition, so it seems like his mouth is coming out of his neck. The only thing I can really say for this is to look up photos of canines (or if you have one, have him sit around for a while as you study his head and how it connects to his neck from various angles), as well as studying how the human head connects to the neck.

I am not sure about the shoulders, but I am under the notion that you do not understand how the pectoral works alongside the deltoid and has a tendency to appear 'connected' to it on the flesh. Various medical diagrams outline the musculature rather well, and studying them is a fairly easy thing to do. Alternately, google old photos of Arnold Schqarzenegger, because it's simultaneously horrifying and educational.

The pecs seem like they are a little too large, and fairly flat. They do not follow the form of the ribcage underneath them, and seem to be in the midst of defying gravity. Large pecs will fall downward, and in fact will jiggle amusingly when not in use and a person is in movement.

Ribcage is inaccurate. Too short, and the various lines around the back (on our right) do not indicate where it ends. There is an unnecessary portion of flesh coming inward directly below where you have indicated the 'end' of the ribcage. It should not be there, rather, the oblique should be larger and higher and the chest should be larger and lower. There tends to be a small space in the middle where the waist is, and... that's generally about it.

There are a couple odd lines beneath the pectorals, which seems to be an indication of an unknown muscle somewhere between the abdominals and the serratus. Speaking of, there are no serratus anterior here. They're the ones that connect to the upper seven or eight ribs and follow them along the side.

As far as the abdominals... the navel seems a little high, usually is between the lowest set and the second lowest of the rectus abdominus, occasionally on the lowest ones.
And those seem oddly defined. Like perhaps there shouldn't be a line defining it, rather just mild shading. Even in really ripped people it generally looks a lot more like a solid piece than two separate ones.

As mentioned, the obliques are oddly shaped. They do not sit on the iliac crest the way they should, and the lines curving inward do not seem to follow how they generally should lead onto the pubic region.

The penis is probably too high, although I suppose that dogs have their junk closer to their stomachs and you could argue that it's an anatomically stylistic choice, and ultimately I don't care.

The definition of the muscle in the upper arm is incorrect. The top of the bicep does not connect under the deltoid right, and the 'back' of the arm that we see is lacking proper musculature. Given that his hands have their backs to us, the bicep should also be turned inward, and we would probably see a bit of the tricep. The entire portion might need to be a little longer.

Forearms are far too short. Cannot tell structure due to gauntlets.

Thighs are uneven and structurally unsound. His right is significantly longer than his left. Quad structure might need to be more visible on the outer portion. Thighs are not completely straight.
Knees are defined oddly. They lack the knee cap structure. Given that you have knees, studying them will be very, very easy. Take note of where the largest bulge of the cap is, how the flesh may form around it when you fold your legs at different angles.

His left calf is much longer than his right. The right has odd definition on it. Careful with the lines.

Can't really tell the ankle and downward stuff, again due to armor. There are also some length issues there.

The armor looks somewhat flat. The only thing I can really think of if you don't have a good reference is to find some paper and fold/bend it in such a way that it replicates the shape you're going for, and going from that. Alternately, find close images on google and reference from those. I am not sure about the shoulder pads, but gauntlets and bracers should be relatively easy to find.

So in short, yes, go back to the basics of anatomy. Study skeletal structure of humans, as well as digitigrade animals. And skulls. Skull work is some of the best stuff one can do inside the furry fandom, because having a recognizeable animal due to the head shape is one of the oddly highly valued things.
Musculature can look threatening and complicated, but it's really not. I've actually memorized names of muscles just by all the diagrams I look at when I do this stuff. Medical diagrams are good stuff. Do not feel that you need to instantly know all the nuances of musculature, as the finer points end up coming from life and motion studies. If it takes time, it takes time, just... keep working at it.
Fat tissue comes next, but that varies drastically depending on the body type you're drawing. Try to pay attention to it anyway.
Then how the flesh lays on top of all that mixture, and how it generally defines certain areas of the body.

Also, working on becoming familiar with your media will help you immensely as well. Become comfortable with making long, connected, smooth strokes with the pencil. Don't just use your wrist to make lines, throw your entire arm into it. If it requires drawing on a massive surface to get into the habit of using your whole arm, then make an effort to do so.
Make a series of values with the pencil, from the lightest to darkest or the other way around. Familiarize yourself with making these varying tones and blending them together without smudging a picture. Smudging... smudging can be used for certain surfaces, and I suppose it's got its uses otherwise if you're really experienced with it. I will generally use it as the understructure for more complex rendering.

At this point I've completely lost my train of thought processing and must close this book.
Soo...
Questions?

No.534 - Link Reply Report 534

>>533

no questions so far. Thank you very much for this one. It's detailed and very helpful. ^^

Ultimately you have it down on all points it seems. I will take time to work on these points along with my other things and I hope the next time I post on here in a long time I'll be able to show massive improvement ^^

Again thank you for the detailed help. now where is my dog laying <.<

File: whoa.jpg -(19457 B, 313x233)
19457 No.535 - Link Reply Report 535

>>533