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discussion

Continued from the Hard Vore thread on /ah/

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at 14 Oct 2007: 18:31

>>57669 I chose the Hard Vore thread because I see it as a good representative for what I am against. I don't think there is anything wrong with anything that promotes love. I don't mind cub porn. Scat is tolerable. I don't know what to say about rape because I don't understand it. I think rape was an invented concept, and shouldn't be seen as anything worse than forcing someone to share lunch with you, and its just amplified by a sex-phobic society, but w/e, I don't like to see anything in emotional pain and so I think rape fans should consider whether or not they are putting arousal in higher priority over love. I like herms. =3 I actually wear my own fursuit and snuggle with a plusie in bed, usually at the same time. I don't think there is anything wrong with that because its done out of having an affection for something.

Whatever you may think, I ask this: Do you believe that enjoying digestion, hard vore, torture, violence, snuff, crushing, death or jacking off to roadkill is respectful? If you think it is, I'd really want to see how logical your thinking is.

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at 14 Oct 2007: 18:42

(Revision of previous reply)

>>57665 I want to prevent people from letting themselves enjoy things that are very painful to cope with IRL.
If you didn't know already I hate to inform that there are people who sexually enjoy saddening and unfortunate circumstances such as death and mutilation.

    Letting this kind of specific thing continue to poison the fandom (it effects everyone) and ruin our reputation isn't worth whatever arousal it causes. The biggest issue I have is not that something is being caused pain, because its true that its just fantasy and none of this is real, BUT I feel that this is immoral. Furries are creations that should be loved and appreciated, not abused and treated like soulless garbage. Just to keep something in mind, I strongly support anything done with intentions to express love or respect for something or someone.

     I *don't* have an issue with violent RP or images because it is "weird." IE I don't mind incest so long as it doesn't result in disabled babies being born, and I don't believe that incest fans are aroused by retarded kids and rather believe that love within the family shouldn't be bounded by what society thinks. The only people I have a problem with are those that put their need for arousal at a higher priority than sympathy, respect and love, both for others in the fandom and the victims in the images. Those that go to efforts to find ways to justify these interests and support each other for something that ultimately can not be justified. I believe that love is millions of times more important than freedom of expression, because freedom is power, and the love of power corrupts.

     You cannot say that "we all are individuals with different interests" as a justification in this case because some things are immoral and should not be tolerated. I believe that most furs let this stuff exist because ether A) they feel there is nothing they could do, or B) it is somehow hypocritical to outcast certain fetishes. We can do something to end this, and no, I am not hypocritical for having my standpoint. Fans of violence are not a more extreme version of myself or other furs, we are opposites. We do not want to silence weirdness but immorality, deep down. Immorality, meaning, undervaluing love. We have the utmost love and respect for our fursonas, our races, and other furs, and the few of us who do think about the dark side of things would only do so to motivate a desire to protect each other from harm.

All my friends have to deal with this burden, some have chosen to give up and only wish such interests never existed, others get frustrated and lash out, and I am trying my best to explain why people are offended by these things. We might not be so offended by this stuff if you were to want to have only loving fantasies or admit that it's not respectful.

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at 14 Oct 2007: 23:00

I'm not a fan of violence between people in real life but I am a fan of fictional violence in furry porn. Someone thinks it's not being shared discreetly enough.

Disturbing imagery is just as worth exploring in art as wholesome imagery. And this is hardly art, it's furry porn, ferchrissake!

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at 14 Oct 2007: 23:25

I still have yet to see a strong argument as to why it is okay and should be tolerated.

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Mr. Dink at 14 Oct 2007: 23:39

Just because a person does not like what another likes, does not make the latter wrong. As long as the person drawing vore is not invading your personal rights as a person then were is the harm. As far as posting; well it’s in AH. That’s what AH is here for.

I constantly see drama go back and forth about what should be allowed and what shouldn’t. Yet everyone here came here for the same reason; to whack off....   if you don’t like what is posted don’t look at it.. 

Me, personally, I don’t like women. So when I see big boobies on my screen I scroll down to the next pic. The same goes for scat, not my thing. I don’t scream and bitch about it, and cause drama that interrupts the flow of pics. Others are going to like things that I don’t find interesting or arousing. I move on with life cause there is more to it than trying to stop those few individuals.

That’s my two cents worth.

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at 14 Oct 2007: 23:43

You totally missed the point.

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at 14 Oct 2007: 23:45

What makes somthing immoral?
What makes it wrong?
who is the overseer of these rules?

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:31

You can figure it out by using logical, critical thinking.

Imagine this:

We should allow guro fans to draw up pictures of furries being torn up and gutted, so long as they don't force others to see. I mean, think about it: You are not physically hurting anybody. The problem is that people are too easily offended and can't learn to accept differences.

Is like saying:

You should allow necrophiliacs to dig up corpses and have sex with them, so long as they put them back and do not do it in front of the family of the corpse. I mean, think about it: You are not physically hurting anybody. The problem is that people are too easily offended and can't learn to accept differences.

The fact that one is IRL and the other isn't has no effect on this logic. Likely, if someone drew a picture of one's mother's corpse being raped and posted it online, he would try to sue and others would support him. If someone had desires, alone, to dig up one's mother's corpse and have sex with it, regardless of whether or not he had done so, and was proud of these desires, the same uproar would occur. Most people love their mother; I love my fursona and my race like family, so the same logic applies to both cases.

If you want to allow guro and death fetishes, perhaps I should dig up your mother just when she dies, or at least want to, and you will tolerate that like how you force the fandom to tolerate you. Or else, you are a hypocrite who thinks with double standards.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:33

well it gives new meaning to cracking open a cold one

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:36

:D LOL

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:39

well my mom is dead, though she is cremated, so having sex with her is gonna be kinda hard. and i would not classify that is necrophilia as the body is no longer intact. i would have to clasify that as some kind of texturphilia....  

though the pictures that are drawn are ideas put into digital form through means of a computer. Again,.... if someone is into that kinda stuff let them be, it is not hurting anyone else and is only hurting YOU if you let it.   move on, and get over it.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:47

"though the pictures that are drawn are ideas put into digital form through means of a computer."

Like I said, that doesn't change anything. Even if you were to argue that; if you were to draw pictures of someone's family in these /ah/ situations, they would try to sue you. Because it's wrong.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:53

>>1
Cub porn ok.
Scat ok.
rape "kind of" ok.
Jacking off to road-kill NOT ok.

Not following you.

But to answer your question, it's not really respectful.  But I think it's okay to be disrespectful to others in the privacy and cowardice of your own home.  Furthremore such expressions of disrespect have no reason to be disallowed in a place where one is properly forwarned and there is no expectation that your sensibilites will be offended (/ah, etc.)

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:57

I'll come back to this later.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 00:57

yes drawing form peoples families in pictures is wrong especially in compromising situations...  i believe the word is slander.

but this is all fictional. We don’t see bunnies being digested by giant dragons or wolves screwing a fox while maiming it. That’s why its on here. It’s a form of art (and i use that word loosely) as most of the scenarios cannot happen as depicted in the pictures on here.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 04:52

>>8

Guro drawings have no connection to real life (and if they do, they're illegal, and banned) while necropheliac digging up a corpse is digging up the body of someone with friends, family, etc, who knew and loved that person, and feel a deep hurt at the "violation" of their loved one's corpse. Apples to oranges.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 06:02

Did you ever stop to think that the reason some of us draw guro is because we DO love the characters being drawn?  I have one particular character I draw being killed/mutilated/tortured over and over.  It's practically all I've ever drawn her doing.  She is also my favorite of my own characters, no question.  Why do you assume we draw guro because we hate the characters?  Because they're being killed?  Some people hug the things they like, some of us destroy them.  It's a very intimate moment, the last of a creature's life.  Emotions are strong and pure, and there's no thoughts about regret or what will happen because of it.  There is only "right now."  It has a refreshing, free, powerful kind of feel to it, like when you find something caked with dust and take your hand and wipe away a big chunk of it.

Also, I happen to know that many people who enjoy guro art have fantasies about being the victim.  It's kind of like the ultimate submission, giving someone control over when you die.

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Bizzle at 15 Oct 2007: 09:03

>>17  That sounds like something Hannibal Lecter would tell Clarisse.  Seriously, that's so "serial killer" it's scary.

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at 15 Oct 2007: 18:33

Who wrote The Silence of the Lambs? A serial killer? No. An author with a vivid imagination wrote it. Same goes for people who make movies about horror and gore. Same goes for people who draw and enjoy guro and death fantasies in their furry porn.

The key words here are imagination and fantasies. Your argument, if I understand correctly, is that it's immoral and wrong to enjoy imagining and fantasizing about cruel and evil acts or to create depictions of them and share them on fchan.

Well they may well be immoral and impure thoughts, but that's all they are, thoughts. So far they haven't and are very unlikely to lead to corresponding actions.

Is it wrong to have such thoughts in the first place? It's certainly unusual, but there's nothing wrong in dwelling upon notions of evil acts, they can be both entertaining and arousing. The human psyche enjoys evil and violence and that's not going to change just because the notion doesn't appeal to you. What we are doing is indulging in it while keeping it firmly within the realm of the imagination.

Digging up corpses, etc., is definitely NOT imaginary (well, it is so long as you don't actually go do it, but you did imagine it.)

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Buffalo Bizzle at 15 Oct 2007: 20:38

>>19  What argument?  That was just a factual statement.  Now, it puts the lotion on it's skin!

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at 16 Oct 2007: 13:25

>>1
Hahaha, oh shit, did you just equate rape with forcing someone to have lunch with you?

You do realize that rape is incredibly traumatic and often painful, right? Not because of a sex-phobic society, but because it completely degrades the person being raped by reducing them to a fucktoy. It removes a person's humanity, if only temporarily, and reduces them to a tool for other people to use and discard at their whim.

There is something fucking wrong with you.

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FurryFox at 16 Oct 2007: 18:47

>>21
yes..thats true...

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KB at 16 Oct 2007: 21:03

>>8
If you were digging up corpses to have sex with them I think you would be hurting someone. I think we'd all like the peace of mind knowing that our corpses won't be violated after we die. Whether you don't want people having sex with your corpse or if you don't want people drawing your character in vore scenes you should have the right to keep others from doing that to you. However, if someone wants to draw their own characters or have their own characters drawn in vore they then the biggest victim there would be you for having seen it.

So we have to ask which is more important; their right to free expression or your virgin eyes.

Oh, and don't tell me we'll need a super hardcore section added... and for the record although I think they should be allowed to do their thing I don't find vore arousing.

24Report (sage)
at 17 Oct 2007: 05:16

>>8
"You should allow necrophiliacs to dig up corpses and have sex with them, so long as they put them back and do not do it in front of the family of the corpse."

No, of course not.

"You should allow necrophiliacs to draw pictures of dug up corpses and people having sex with them, so long as they don't force others to see."

Yes, absolutely.

"We should allow guro fans to tear up and gut furries, (or animals, or people, whatever.) so long as they do not do it in front of the family of the, uh, being in question."

No, of course not.

"We should allow guro fans to draw up pictures of furries being torn up and gutted, so long as they don't force others to see."

Yes, absolutely.

From what I can can tell from your posts, it's not even the fear that looking at pictures of it will cause people to want to act out what they see, even.

You just don't like the fact that the basic motivation isn't love.

But there are tons of people that would love to ban violent books, games, movies, etc. just because they don't understand the motivation behind it.

But regardless of what the specific motivation is, you cant just  censor everyone else because you don't understand it or disagree with it.

>>2 "I believe that most furs let this stuff exist because ether A) they feel there is nothing they could do, or B) it is somehow hypocritical to outcast certain fetishes."

It's not that its hypocritical; You just see it as being worse than the rest, when most other people don't. There are plenty of   people in the world that would say the same thing about gay/scat/furry/shitting dicknipple porn, while tolerating guro. It just seems like guro is a big deal to you, because its the one particular thing you dislike.

25Report (sage)
at 17 Oct 2007: 13:57

>>24
Is one of those rare people that actually puts some thought into their reasoning and argument rather than letting their gut feeling do the driving.

This post is not spectacularly on-topic, I know, but after reading through some of the other blather disguised as "reasoned argument" in /dis/, I thought it worth mentioning.

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at 17 Oct 2007: 15:43

I have my main arguments prepared mentally, I'll post my thoughts on everything discussed here once I type them up.

NOTE:

FOR OTHERS WHO JUST HAVE STUMBLED ACROSS THIS THREAD, BE SURE TO READ ALL THE POSTS. TO KEEP THE THREAD DOWN TO A MINIMUM SIZE, PLEASE DO NOT REPEAT PREVIOUSLY MADE ARGUMENTS. Thanks.

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at 17 Oct 2007: 17:22

>>26
TL;DR

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at 17 Oct 2007: 21:27

eh?

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at 17 Oct 2007: 22:29

Personally, I see nothing wrong with roadkill.  The smell is wonderful, and since the corpse is already a heaping pustule of ooze and delight, it's already lubricated and ripe for the pickins.  The best part is, as opposed to furries, since the animal is already dead on the inside, it has no inclination to say "no" to begin with.

Not only is necrophilia dead sexy, but it's also a way of life.

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at 17 Oct 2007: 22:31

>>29

thats just sick

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at 18 Oct 2007: 00:19

*I think* an important thing to keep in mind here is the specific phrasing of the original post: "I chose", "I see it", "I don't think", "I don't mind", etc.  *In my opinion* to say that the "generally questionable" topics that one person accepts are universally more acceptable than the "generally questionable" topics that the same person doesn't accept is fairly narrow-minded.  I'm pretty sure that most people recognize that the topics produced in AH are considered "squicky" by much of the population and will not find universal acceptance among most people, so to narrow it down and say *these* specific topics are okay because they don't bother *me* (but those other topics are degenerate, harmful, taboo, etc.) borders on trolling based on the sheer absurdity of the statement being made.  To paraphrase: if you can access the internet you should have realized by now that everybody is different, and another good thing to realize is that if it bothers you then you ought not to look at it.

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Nick at 18 Oct 2007: 00:20

"Not only is necrophilia dead sexy"

Ouch.

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at 18 Oct 2007: 01:02

>>24

Sorry for thinking that jacking off to someone eviscerating another person while fucking their skull that they ripped off of the body and shitting on the body is worse than seeing two underage, consenting entities having sex.


What the fuck. Those are nowhere near each other in terms of "how fucked up are you" scales. And there's no argument against it either, hard vore is really just a really extreme fetish that not very many people like.


There's a difference between writing a book, like Silence of the Lambs that is about a cannibal, and getting sexually aroused by a cannibalistic murder. I mean, I don't think  Silence of the Lambs was written for people to jerk off to for some reason.

34Report (sage)
at 18 Oct 2007: 04:30

>>33
Just a moment off-topic.

Dude, while the book might not have been written with that sort of target audience in mind, I can guarantee that somewhere out there, there's somone masturbating furiously over the idea.

Hell, I can also guarantee that there are people stroking their ying-yang with great gusto over anything you can think of, no matter how outre or disturbing to you, and to some things beyond your ken as well.

Raw sewage? Babies Flambe? Flatworms in lingerie? Genitals in a hot waffle iron? Leprous nuns eating flaming babies with hot waflle irons clamped to their tiny genitalia, wading neck deep in raw sewage while dancing flatworms in exciting clothing from Fredericks of Hollywood sodomize them? Somewhere, someone's spanking the monkey over it.

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Fat Bastard at 18 Oct 2007: 10:18

>>34  "Babies Flambe?"

Come 'ere bebeh, I'm gonna eatcha!

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at 18 Oct 2007: 23:36

GIT IN MAH BELLAH!

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at 19 Oct 2007: 03:15

>>16

Tsepesi, tsepesi, tsepesi YAY!

>>33
Sagawa, sagawa, sagawa, YAY!

>>29
hi-5!

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Dragon103 at 19 Oct 2007: 07:28

I am almost done typing my response. I think that this is fair, logical and should satisfy both sides of the issue. But, is there a post size limit?

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at 19 Oct 2007: 08:29

>>38
no, although you could have just posted it and found it.

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at 22 Oct 2007: 00:13

>>38
Un een dees cornahr, we sees a speceefeek example of ze most commun furré, ze genus Procrastopius. Mah-vel at eets compleet inabilibity to fineesh a complete woik eefen though eet is a few mere strides from compleezion!

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