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And, I'm done.

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1Report
at 28 Mar 2008: 15:14

Am I the only person who just recently - as in, this week - decided to stop reading Better Days? As though Fisk wasn't already insufferably sueish, now he's going to be James Bond on top of it.

Maybe I'll pick it up again when Mr. Naylor goes back to the more interesting characters.

2Report (sage)
at 28 Mar 2008: 15:22

>>1
"Going back" to "interesting characters" implies they existed in the first place.

3Report
at 28 Mar 2008: 16:06

The comic has always been a steaming pile of dogshit. Now it's just a mound of various dogs shits mixed together.

4Report
Sen at 28 Mar 2008: 17:35

It's so nice to see the fandom come together for one solid act of unity. :P

5Report
at 28 Mar 2008: 19:03

>>1

 No kidding. Has anybody else noticed how overdone the 'Born Killer' type personality is in Fisk, and a lot of Naylor's other characters?

6Report
at 28 Mar 2008: 20:39

"sueish"?

What does that mean?

7Report
at 28 Mar 2008: 21:11

>>6

It means he's a Mary Sue. An unrealistically perfect character, one for whom the whole world bends over backwards. In the specific case of Fisk it refers to his uncanny battlefield abilities, his ability to get women to profess their love for him by doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, etc.

8Report
at 28 Mar 2008: 21:23

>>5
I especially love the obnoxious and self destructive characters he portrays so often. I love losing my erection faster than a speeding train.

9Report
Bizzle at 29 Mar 2008: 00:42

I don't know why you all care.  There's plenty of lousy shit out there.  Just don't read it.

10Report
at 29 Mar 2008: 09:24

>>9 I care because I used to like it. I'm been reading it for years. It's only recently -as the characters reached adulthood - that Naylor has turned Fisk from an overly-precocious mouthpiece to a  gun-toting Superman who can do no wrong. And it's only with this current arc that it's gotten really unbearable, not to mention clichéd

11Report
lost souls at 29 Mar 2008: 13:28

>>10
Wasn't it obvious that that was what Naylor wanted all along? All Mary Sues want to be superheros.

12Report
at 29 Mar 2008: 20:40

>>11

I'm hoping that I'm wrong here. Maybe Fisk will turn down the Jason Bourne job and I'll have to eat some crow. I think I might prefer that's actually. It would be a good indication that Naylor is trying to fix his character a bit.

13Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 08:45

I saw this coming back in the early chapters when Fisk was still a kid.. It hinted itself back in Chapter 4 when he wrote that essay on whale killing, defying his oh-so-hilariously-democraticliberalhippycollegeeducated teacher, and the superessays that ms. democratic teacher showed to fisk's megaslut mother.

It made itself fully known when he killed some rapistcat with no remorse whatsoever and the kicker: that one scene where he sits down and chats with fiskdaddy's old war buddy to wax political ideaology.  At that point I got up and said 'DONE.'

Outside of cartoons like early episodes of The Boondocks, I have yet to run into an uber-politcally active child who can break into political soliloquy that would make a college professor blush.  Fisk is a war superhero, is attractive enough to get women to drop to their knees and blow him with just a look, and can blow women's mind by being the most "virile" male in the face of planet earth according to one of his pay-to-view comics-- Just to name a few.  The comic has turned into nothing more into a betting contest to see how far he takes it, with so far hilarious results.  If he isn't a Mary Sue then I don't know what he is.  People also call him an "Objectivism" Ayn Rand / Atlas Shrugged fanboi, but I don't know enough about Atlas Shrugged to comment on it.

Also, I hear that people like to think he's a stereotypical neo-conservative, and I've heard of RL attempts to make him quite uncomfortable when at furry conventions.

also.. inb4 naylor fanboi's taking fiskcock out of their mouth long enough to trigger shitstorm

14Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 10:46

>>13
Naylor is so awesome though. I mean his art is perfect, his scripts...wow, he should be in Hollywood right now and the plot twists...DAMN, I was so shocked.

Seriously though, I don't think ANYONE will defend him. We can all agree his artistic talent is fairly good but I don't think anyone is impressed by his ability to weave a story and create believable/likeable characters because he has no such ability. All of his characters are either Mary Sues, ridiculously self destructive garbage or some politically charged character who can't STFU about their politics for one moment. Are there people like that in life? Sure, aside from Mary Sues. But putting them in comics makes it neither clever or enjoyable to read. There has to be a mixture of likeable and hateable.

This is common though, a lot of artists who are talented seem to lack the ability to write and create ideas that are interesting. It's very rare to find someone who has both compelling scripts and artwork.

15Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 10:57

I was done back in 2003.

16Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 10:59

I loved the fact he didn't know what 'foreskins' were but talked as if he had a college degree at that age. Really believable stuff.

17Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 11:47

Hey, he pounded his sister into the mattress when she came to his room distraught and emotionally ruined over the recent boy trouble. I might call that a refutation of the mary-sue claims, but then again, he probably didn't intend it to be a bad thing. I mean, I wouldn't necessarily call incest bad if both parties can and do consent, but I remember back at that age screwing around with a NON-relative and then having to apologize to her like crazy as she sobbed about feeling a loss of innocence. I can't fucking imagine if I had boned my sister, especially if she was in such an emotionally delicate state as Lucy at the time. There'd have been some regret-sobbing the day after that...

18Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 12:17

>>17

Yeah, but all of his 'good guys' are morally decrepit.

>>14

You forget the characters that are meant to illustrate how stupid non-Objectivists are.

19Report
at 30 Mar 2008: 18:30

>>14

not ALL his characters are like that. I really liked the two engaged dogs, even if they did bring about some of the most gawdawful poetry in the history of human endeavor :P

20Report
lost souls at 30 Mar 2008: 23:52

>>13
Me too. Done, and done.

>>14
It's one thing to be a good artist who recongizes one's utter lack of writing talent, and then seeks out other people to work with him/her. It's another thing to be a good artist who is completely blind to their inabilities.

21Report
lost souls at 30 Mar 2008: 23:52

>>13
Me too. Done, and done.

>>14
It's one thing to be a good artist who recongizes one's utter lack of writing talent, and then seeks out other people to work with him/her. It's another thing to be a good artist who is completely blind to their inabilities.

22Report
at 18 Apr 2008: 22:38

Well, he took the job. Gee, that was nice while it lasted.

23Report
at 3 Jun 2008: 01:09

that got me wonderin, jay was once friends with matt sherer.

Anyone remember how did they get so mad at eachother?

24Report (sage)
at 3 Jun 2008: 14:52

Slightly necro'd?

25Report
at 3 Jun 2008: 17:42

>>23 Fisk and Lucy were born, like so many furry characters are, on a muck. That means the creators were cybering each other and took each others characters to their webcomics. When the falling out finally happened, like it always did, well..

Lucy's still on Taps, Jay's still on there too, but not as Fisk.


26Report
at 4 Jun 2008: 01:06

I think one of the problems with BD is how slow it is sometimes.  I realize it's just a comic, but it seems like too often there is almost no content in a strip.  If you were to wait until he's done making them, and then read through it all at once, it would probably be better (at least, it was for me when I read through the beginning 15 chapters or whatever).

Kinda like why season 3 of Battlestar wasn't very good.  Waaaay too many episodes of meaningless fluff that just didn't matter.  I only hope RDM pulls his head out and makes the rest of season 4 great.

27Report
at 4 Jun 2008: 02:50

thats why i dont watch the sifi chanel anymore.

28Report
at 4 Jun 2008: 09:09

I stopped reading after Fisk went off to war and Lucy went off to college. Naylor started stuffing in far too much of his political views and focused more and more on sexual relationships than any actual advancement in the plot after that.

29Report
klokwrkblu at 13 Jun 2008: 02:23

Heres somthing else ive been thinking of. What whould you guys think if someone where to come with a kind of anti Fisk.

Mr. Blacks Dopple Ganger if you will?

Ive been thinkin about it for a while.

30Report
Sen at 13 Jun 2008: 06:22

>>29
Well, the problem with an anti-fisk is that he'd be one gigantic flaw. He'd be stupid, couldn't get laid, wouldn't succeed at anything, etc. It'd be a somewhat boring read.

However, if somebody were to make a character that takes everything away from Fisk and does everything Fisk does even better, I'd be all for that. :P

31Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 06:42

>>28
The problem is Naylor is too full of himself to realize sex + his political views + Mary Sues = shitty

This is a problem with a lot of artists. The best artist is one who constantly questions themselves yet has the confidence to move forward and work hard. A good artist NEVER looks at a piece of work they have done and says "yep, this is perfect", there is always that one little problem that needs fixing. Of course depending on the purpose of the art eventually you have to step away and say "ok, it has faults...but it does what it needs to do so i'm done working on it"

With Better Days I get the feeling Naylor pretty much took his rough draft, looked at it and said "Yep, this is perfect" or even worse just writes the comic off the top of his head. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

32Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 11:11

>>30

If you skipped the mary-sue part of Fisk, his "evil twin" would be a pacifistic, altruistic, kind and loving anthro kitty who finds value in things like religion, abstract art and diplomacy, and who would have deep qualms with the prospect of taking another's life. He'd also be repulsed by incest and dislike casual sex.

Sounds like someone I'd want to be my neighbor, but probably wouldn't make a good story unless you did some <serious> plot writing.

33Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 12:12

>>31

And that's the problem with artists in the fandom.. You have no idea how much rampant brown-nosing is out there.  The worst thing that can happen to an art-geek, especially if he's the kind that's been put down all through elementary / high school and had little friends-- Is to give those nerds huge popularity.

34Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 12:16

>>33
Popularity isn't an issue. Having fans doesn't affect an artist negatively if they actually had some artistic principles and hard work ethic to begin with. Some people create a fanfic or piece of art and instantly think "THIS FUCKING ROCKS" and some people instantly think "GAAAH THERE IS SO MUCH WRONG WITH THIS", Naylor happens to be in the former.

Popularity or not...people like this will continue doing what they do.

35Report
Bobtard at 13 Jun 2008: 17:13

http://www.jaynaylor.com/betterdays/archives/2008/06/chapter-22-roll-7.html

Lol, nothing like making fun of how nerdy and lowly on the societal hierarchical chain D&D players are in a furry comic containing sister fucking.

36Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 22:13

Isnt Mat sherer is like also?

37Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 22:16

Im sorry; my fingers sliped.


What I ment to say was

Isnt Mat Sherer like that also?

38Report
Bobtard at 13 Jun 2008: 22:36

>>37

Hell if I know. Are you referring to >>35 ?

In case you are:

From what I remember from Mat's comic, it seems like he may have occasionally poked fun at D&D stuff (I honestly can't remember, been a long time since I've read his comic), but his whole comic didn't take itself too seriously. In Better Days, Jay presents his characters as otherwise serious people that only occasionally have funny things happen to them. Lucy, in Jay's comic, has also made fun of nerds who wear t-shirts with cartoon characters on them, and well, you just tell me if you think it's self deprecating or ironic humor, or just making fun of people who are into cartoon characters:
http://www.jaynaylor.com/betterdays/archives/2007/08/chapter-19-part-7.html


In case you aren't:
Click on the number of the comment you are referring to (it will automatically insert it into the reply box, if you didn't know) so I won't look like I think I'm more important than I am.

39Report
at 13 Jun 2008: 23:39

>>38

Actually, I was refering to >>31 and 34

I was also reffering to from when Fisk Koneko died to the end of the original comic. From there that it started to get boring to the piont that BDK became more like Garfeild.


40Report
Bobtard at 14 Jun 2008: 00:01

>>39

Hence the reason I kinda lost interest in that comic. That and I think he went on hiatus or something for a tiny bit and that gave me a chance to completely forget about it.

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