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Why do you furries hate America?

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7Report (sage)
at 20 Dec 2005: 11:53

>>6
what's an OP?

8Report (sage)
at 20 Dec 2005: 12:03

>>7
Original Poster. I.E. the one who starts the thread.

9Report
at 20 Dec 2005: 12:06

doesnt america have more furry conventions than any other country?

10Report
Gecko Takari at 20 Dec 2005: 13:23

>>6 That's one way to look at it.  Another way to approach the question is to grab the ball and have fun with the topic rather than take it to heart, similar to what I do with gay-bashers who ask negative questions about homosexuals. 

Ex: It's not that we hate the whole America per se.  Just the United States, really.  And parts of Canada.  We also hate Jesus, marraige, and the concept of freedom.  Many of us are made of leather and have whip-like tails, after all. 

And so on.  :D

11Report (sage)
at 20 Dec 2005: 15:50

I don't hate America.  In fact, I love it so much, I live there!

12Report
tamreki at 20 Dec 2005: 16:58

i don't hate america, just the government. although, I would rather live in japan.

13Report (sage)
Random Viewer at 20 Dec 2005: 17:59

Oh yea, Amaricans are stupid no doubt about it.  I mean comeon, just look at them they... wait a minute, THAT'S WHERE I...

AHH **** Nevermind....

>>10
(*Just can't help but laugh at the post*)

14Report
at 20 Dec 2005: 20:45

>>12 Better hope your Japanese or a very rich gaijin because you'll pretty much get to enjoy the lovely feeling of being looked down on every day of your life.

I don't hate America. It's a great place, run by "mostly" good people. Hell, furries should try living in Iran if they think things are bad here. Bet they'd be stoned to death the first time word of the "unnatural" images on their PC got out. And forget fursuiting or cons.

15Report
at 20 Dec 2005: 22:29

why do you hate america?
because america hates us.

16Report (sage)
America at 21 Dec 2005: 02:29

Why's everybody always hatin' on me. ;_;.

17Report
at 21 Dec 2005: 02:48

>>10
It's not necessarily even a negative question.  Surely some people believe that hating America is necessary and positive, to maintain one's own moral integrity.

That said, I think it's counterproductive to simply hate what you can change into something better.

18Report
Gecko Takari at 20 Dec 2005: 13:47

>>17 Huh?  But...I don't remember saying anything about the first post being a negative question.  I only said that it was best to handle it in the manner of questions I have previously handled that are negative.  *Sir, thou wouldst falsely imply of my person!*  ;P

Even so, I admit to feeling no sympathy for those who depend on such hate to keep a rather weak and ignorant idea of moral integrity intact.  Perhaps these people should spend a bit more attention to Martin Luther King Jr. and take a page from his book.  This is assuming they ignore the Christian part though, because furries hate Christ, remember?  We hate Jews and Pastafarians even more, too.  AMERICA IS TO BLAME FOR THAT!!!11  :O

19Report (sage)
at 20 Dec 2005: 15:54

>>18

I'm personally not big on using MLK as a model, because while he was all for rights of most racial minorities, he was against women's rights. He was highly sexist. I find that rather hypocritical, though no one can argue that he truly did change the way America thinks and he still made a positive impact in a lot of areas.

20Report (sage)
TehFURRIZE! at 20 Dec 2005: 17:23

We don't hate America.

However, we do have a few  issues with some of the asshats living there.

Love and Kisses

21Report
Visky at 21 Dec 2005: 00:07

America...great idea.  Was a pioneer of freedom...was.  Other countries seem to be beating us to the gun now on granting freedoms to minorities/discriminated segments of the populace.  Not to mention the current meddling in other countries when we still can't even take care of our own populace.  (Social Security slowly heading towards disaster...no national healthcare...) 

I have issues with all the jobs getting sent overseas...everything coming Made in China now and when you call tech support, more likely than not you get someone in Turkey or some other country answering the phone  (Dell being a prime example of the latter).

And last but not least, the strong current moving through the US that if you're not Christian, you're wrong.  No one's passing laws, but I'm sure I'm not the only one seeing that there's a lot of pressure on non-Christians to fall 'into the flock' so to speak.

We can get America back on track...but it'll take some work.  Work that doesn't seem that important to far too many Americans out there.  *waves a wake up capsule under America's nose*

22Report(capped) (sage)
Raven at 21 Dec 2005: 00:28

>>21

Let's try not to start any religious debates. It would be nice to keep this flame free.

(This goes for everyone else, as well, given the delicate nature of this thread. Please think before you post.)

23Report
at 21 Dec 2005: 01:26

i'm very patriotic thank u very much and i don't really know very many furries personally but from all the sites i've been to i haven't seen any evidence that they hate america.

24Report
LimeyKat#S99r0xktr. at 21 Dec 2005: 15:42

>>21 You coulda said "Our government is corrupting further, and our spoiled brat president hears voices." without even touching on religion. :D lol

Anyhow.. a good portion of anyone out there hating, stands a very good chance of only hating because someone else they know does. People don't think for themselves enough to credit them with free thought and emotion. Everyone's an "individual" by following everyone else. This is called peer pressure. (or Stupidity, same thing.)
"I wont be your friend if you don't agweeeee wiff meeeeeeeeee!!  >:( ", and it works because people have no backbone to tell their friends they don't have to have a borg mentality and think exactly the same way they do.

I am patriotic, and love my country, just not so much the people running it, or those who voted "monkey boy" on their ballots. -__-

25Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 02:11

>>21
Social Security is not heading toward "disaster".  That is hyperbole, and the politics of fear.  Sorry to hear that you've stumbled there, but take a deep breath and don't worry: we can make this work and it doesn't and shouldn't involve handing our money over to the rich in a privatization scheme.

What's actually going on with Social Security, and how it can be painlessly steered toward long-term solvency:
http://www.bostonreview.net/BR29.2/diamondorszag.html

Why corporate and other moneyed interests are so intent on privatizing Social Security:
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=10&ItemID=8102
(hint: it's not because they care about your quality of life in retirement)

26Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 02:29

>>22
Yeah, it would be "nice".  But it would also be disingenuous.  Let's not pretend that a discussion of America can be divorced from a discussion of the religious beliefs of 80% of Americans. 

A small minority of these Christians have an incredible amount of political power, simply because they loudly proclaim their devotion and the rest of the population either cheers them on, or just rolls their eyes and looks away.  But we should not look away, because this is what they plan, and it is frightening:
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/12/a_nation_under_god.html

An excerpt:
Reconstructionists aren’t shy about what exactly it is they are pursuing: "The long-term goal of Christians in politics should be to gain exclusive control over the franchise," Gary North, a top Reconstruction theorist, wrote in his 1989 book, Political Polytheism: The Myth of Pluralism. "Those who refuse to submit publicly ... must be denied citizenship."

Wow.

But just to be clear, this never was a Christian nation.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2005/12/original_intent.html

And religious moderates (this means you) may even be making things worse.
http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/

27Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 02:57

>>24
I wonder if you really mean that you are "patriotic".  I would like to hear you clarify what you mean by that.  See, I'm not patriotic at all, and here's why.  People have no business being proud of simply being born at one particular spot on the planet.  Proud to be an American?  Please.  Had these folks been born in Iraq they would be blowing up American soldiers right now, in the name of patriotism.

But I do love America.  In fact I love America much MORE than most folks who voted Bush.  I know this because I have actually read the Constitution, and I agree with it (now that it includes the Fourteenth Amendment), and I actually defend it.  That means I extend the benefits of the Bill of Rights to every American, not just the ones whom I agree with.  Right now, Jose Padilla, an American citizen for every moment of his life, is rotting in a prison cell, with no charges filed against him, let alone a trial date set.  This is in clear, plain violation of the Sixth Amendment.

If you think this is okay, then you do not love America.  America is not the flag, it is not the military, it is not the money and the fame and the fast cars.  America is the Constitution, in its entirety.  If you voted for George W. Bush, the greatest threat to our Constitution since the Civil War, then you do not love America.  You might as well burn your flags now, because they are a poor substitute for freedom.

28Report(capped) (sage)
Sage Nadia at 22 Dec 2005: 03:04

http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/2005/ag_speech_051122.html

29Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 04:58

All right, I forgot about that.  I haven't talked about this with anybody since the indictment came, and it slipped my mind.  Apologies for not staying on top of the story.

But three years in a hole somewhere with no charges until last month?  And he had to go to court just to argue that he has the right to speak to a lawyer and be indicted?  And suddenly the indictment comes when the Supreme Court is preparing to hear his case?  The timing is convenient.  But the indictment has nothing to do with what we were told he was being held for.  No "dirty bomb" in that indictment.  That indictment was prepared merely as a political prop.  Now they can wave it in front of the Supreme Court so that the court WON'T rule on whether he had the right to be indicted and given a lawyer.  Because if they don't rule on that, then the Department of Justice can use the same "undue process" on other people in the future.  Indicting him now just because this Administration is staring down the barrel of a Supreme Court ruling is simply a calculated effort on their part to avoid facing the embarassment of being publicly handed a ruling of "unconstitutional, for shame" and the possible impeachment that would accompany breaking one's oath to uphold and defend said document.

Three years without an indictment is still a violation of the Sixth Amendment, and the man should never have been made to jump through these hoops just to speak with a lawyer.

30Report(capped) (sage)
Sage Nadia at 22 Dec 2005: 12:43

You have a lot to learn about the state of being when the country is in a state of war.

Just for the record, Mr. Padilla was removed from the system during a time of war. It was the military which did it, declaring him an enemy combatant. Once one is an enemy combatant, they technically become a non-entity and forfeit all rights. Right or wrong, it is legal, but yes can be overturned by the Supreme Court.

I don't agree with it. However I also don't want it discussed here on fchan anymore. So, drop it. No warnings beyond this one.

31Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 13:31

So you just get to have the last word?  I think you have more honor than that.  Nobody's yelling at anybody, we've kept it quite civil, so let's not end a perfectly good discussion just yet, okay?

Amendment XIV, Section 1
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

The Constitution here defines who is a citizen.  Further, it makes no provision for a citizen to "become a non-entity and forfeit all rights."  Thus this is unconstitutional, and illegal.  However, I think you are confused about the whole "enemy combatant" bit.  In my understanding, the government has never claimed that being an "enemy combatant" causes one to lose citizenship or become a non-entity at all.  They have only argued that this status does not afford protections under the Geneva Conventions.  So non-American "enemy combatants" are essentially lost in the system and this is legal, as you say, right or wrong.  But an American citizen, while still not covered under the Geneva Conventions, remains under the protection of the Constitution.  The Bush Administration has actually not tried to argue otherwise, to the best of my knowledge.  Otherwise why would they finally issue an indictment when it became clear to them that the Supreme Court was going to take Padilla seriously?

32Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 13:38

can we please get back to "why do you hate america?"

i mean this "the constitution is so great" stuff is fine, but a little off-topic

33Report
LimeyKat#S99r0xktr. at 22 Dec 2005: 20:00

>>27 That's a pretty strong "personal opinion" there about who has a right to feel proud and who doesn't. :) Good luck with that.

34Report
at 22 Dec 2005: 23:32

The problem is the question is to general, very vague, very...... random.......... I am an American, I am a furry, and an anime fan, and I do not hate my country. The land, the GOOD and INTELLIGENT people who live here. The freedom (Even though MAY countries are infact free, but whatever), and I love the fact that America is one of the very few countries that has A LOT of different races and cultures. I hate it when some people say "America has no culture of it's own" when infact, diversity and open mindedness is our culture. Celebrating Cinco(sp) De Mayo, a mexican holiday in America, St. Patricks Day, and Irish holiday, Hip-Hop (Originated in America I believe), and so on, this is our cultural diversity, which is our culture.

ANYWHO.... All of that I love, and that means I love my country. However, like some people here, I do not approve of, or "love" my government. Our president is screwing this country over. Embarrasing(sp) us, and making all of America and Americans look foolish. But I will not go into that anymore because this is not a political debate forum.

Now they are making a new law, I believe it is just in Texas as of now, but in a matter of time it will be a country wide law im sure, where you HAVE to put a computer chip in all of your dogs and cats. If you do not comply by April of next year, you will be fined a varying sum of money. This is fine, but it makes me nervous because there was a rumour and controversy a few years back about our government wanting to put computer chips in us humans, so our government could track us, so criminal activity could be cut down greatly. That would be great, except theres a little right we have called privacy, and having the government track out every move is unjust and unfair. This may not happen, but I will not rule it out. Our government officials are really fucking goofy if you ask me. Give it 5 years, you never know what may happen.

Also, about the whole hating America deal....... Who cares if some people/countries hate America..... Don't bother my ass none. There are rednecks and biggots all over AMERICA that hate other countries and other people. I mean we have so many racial slurs it's not even funny. Nigger, chink, gook, heeb, sand monkey, wetback, beaner, mic, spic, grease ball, cracker, wigger, etc.... America isnt perfect, and we are sure not number 1. I think the American government from the beginning of time till now have all been a little full of shit. I mean, damn I love my country but I dont think we are number one. Thats a TAD arrogant, and to make my point more clear, I will quote some comedians jokes, including George Carlin and Lewis Black.

"When this country was founded, and in it's early days when it was being formed into what we now call a government, our politicians stated that all men are created equal, yeah.... except niggers and women.... These people were slave owners that only allowed rich white men to vote.... created equal my ass..... Talk about STUNNINGLY and EMBARRASINGLY full of shit." - George Carlin

"Our country is the only one that always has to remind other countries that we are the greatest country in the world, on a dialy basis. And we wonder why so many people dont like us. That would be like if you were working at your job and some jackass came in everyday saying "Im the greatest fucker here!! and all of you sniveling shits would die without me HAA HAA HAA HAA!!!!" I will guarantee you that by the end of the week, you would have killed him, and eaten his flesh, just so you could try and obtain his power." - Lewis Black

See, I find those kinds of jokes funny, and very true, yet doesnt mean I hate my country, just as those two great comedians don't. They, like me, simply understand that those who are running our country, the government, is a little koo-koo sometimes.

But see, I would never become an anarchist. Anarchists hate the government. I dont HATE my government, I just dont love them, and dont agree with a lot of the stuff they do. I would never become violent against my government because that is when you go overboard and actually BECOME a traitor to your country and is truely unpatriotic. Our government officials do sometimes do some good stuff, positive things that serve a real purpose. But on the other side of the political coin, they also do things that suck and don't make much sense, and anger many American citizens. But guess what, so do other countries. No one is perfect, every person and every country has made mistakes. It is the flaw of human design. Greed, horrible thought processes, selfishness, political agenda's and personal ambitions. Thats the way we are, imperfect, ugly, flawed.

Im sorry if I have gotten off point, I am just trying to explain the difference netween hating a countries governmental actions, and hating the country itself. Many Japanese, Chinese, Korean, German, Irish, Scotish, English, Iraqiah, Iranian, Pakistani, Indian, African, and so on hate America, as in the government. Sure a few dumbasses here and there hate ANYTHING that has to do with America just like we have biggoted rednecks here in America, but when a country says they hate America, usually it's one government to another, and if an American tourist goes to a country with friends or family, you dont see the citizens of that country beating the hell out of them or killing them on a daily basis like a lynch mob. Because the majority of a countries citizens don't have a problem with AMERICAN people, or the countries values itself in general, but the government, and right now Bush for damn sure. A feeling I share with them whole heartedly indeed.

This country is great, but we sure do have some stupid bastards walking around, thats for sure. And i'll leave it at that.

35Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 00:06

>>32


Just because your attempt at trolling totally failed doesn't mean you need to try to egg it on more.

36Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 00:56

i dont understand why American think everyone hates them so much. it might have something to do with the individualistic mentality. i wonder if a country like japan or germany rases topics like these in their furry forums.  ex. "Seriously, why do you hate japan/germany so much?  I just want to know." :D
A better wuaestion i would ask is "why have we not yet still added the reincarnation doctrine to christianity, i mean some king took it out because his wife didnt like it, why haven't we taken it back yet?"

37Report (sage)
You Furries at 23 Dec 2005: 01:53

>>32
'cause we are player haters, and America's a playa.

</sarc>

38Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 12:56

>>34
"I would never become violent against my government because that is when you go overboard and actually BECOME a traitor to your country and is truely unpatriotic."

So in 1776, were the colonists going overboard, becoming traitors, and just being truly unpatriotic to the British government?  Is that how you would describe the revolution?  And even if so, are you saying that all of the above is nevertheless wrong?  Would you have defended the Crown instead?

A few excerpts from an old traitorous manifesto.... see if they ring true today:

The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
 ...
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
 ...
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
 ...
For depriving us, in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
 ...
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:
 ...
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
 ...
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty and perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
 ...
In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

39Report (sage)
at 23 Dec 2005: 13:04

>>36
Please explain who was this king's wife you speak of and when and where did Christians believe in reincarnation?

40Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 13:16

>>34
"but when a country says they hate America, usually it's one government to another, and if an American tourist goes to a country with friends or family, you dont see the citizens of that country beating the hell out of them or killing them on a daily basis like a lynch mob. Because the majority of a countries citizens don't have a problem with AMERICAN people, or the countries values itself in general, but the government,"

This is sort of true.  But it's a bit too rosy of an outlook.  Yes, most country's citizens (Americans included) have a big problem with the American government, specifically.  But they don't forget that it is the American people electing that government.  Now, they do realize that our government manipulates us through the media.  But they are also aware that most of us know this.  When I speak with citizens of other countries, they often ask, "why don't you people DO something about your government?!"  And it's perfectly fair for them to put that responsibility on us.  We, American citizens, are the only people who can probably do anything to rein in our government.  Yet many of us barely try.  Finally many non-Americans come to the conclusion that we must not be trying because we just don't care about the rest of the world anyway.  So don't think that they don't hate us just a little bit, the same way you would hate your neighbor for letting his kids torture the family dog.

41Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 13:19

I think somebody here doesn't really understand anarchism.

http//en.w/...

42Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 16:28

Yes, furries hate America! We hate it so much that we hold most of our conventions in America! We hate it so much we contribute to the economies of these American locations every time we have a convention!

On a side note, I didn't know hating America was required to get your "furry license." I guess I failed that part of the test...

43Report(capped) (sage)
Raven at 23 Dec 2005: 17:30

Okay, this is where we all calm down and start thinking before we post, again.

Remember that this thread is questionable to begin with. Think about what you'd like to say. Ask yourself, "Is this important? Is it stated in a non-inflammatory, non-hostile, and friendly manner?" If not, then you might want to rethink what good your post could do for the community, other than add fuel to the fire.

This pretty much applies everywhere, but I thought I'd be nice enough to actually put it into words in this particular instance. It's just to remind everyone that sometimes the best way to make a statement is to just ignore something altogether, rather than show that you're handing power of yourself over to it. :)

44Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 19:26

>>39

The Roman Emperor Constantine married his way into power. His wife mysteriously disappeared. His second wife was his ticket to the throne. Then he had her killed. His third wife was a prostitute who had risen to the throne in the same diabolical ways Constantine had and who lived to have a devastating effect on the belief in reincarnation. She feared that her sins would follow from lifetime to lifetime infuriated her. She did not like the idea of Karma. Her life was filled with lies and treachery. She was not interested in advocated any religion that would demote her in another life. Thus she persuaded Emperor Constantine to remove reincarnation from Christianity. (http://www.crystalinks.com/reincarnation.html)

45Report (sage)
at 23 Dec 2005: 21:38

>>44

That isn't written very well. If you want to really read up on this subject, I recommend the following. It's a lot of reading, but seems to be rather thought provoking:

http://reluctant-messenger.com/origen.html

46Report
at 23 Dec 2005: 22:15

I say screw all you that dont love this great and somewhat overly powerful country run by a draft dodging, idiotic, fucked up, unintelligable, unintelligent, dipshit, ect... president we have. Besides the President america is a perfect place for starting over, sharing joy, and of course MC Donalds and KFC!

"How can we be unique like everybody else?" My life question.

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