fchan

HERE IS A POST FROM DR.KOMET (of Japan) ;

        The reason why I gave up release of next CD-ROM has the reason why isn't got the personnel expenses cost that I spend in order to produce it from as profit.
CD-ROM # 006 is becoming a complete deficit by an illegal copy.
I am slightly selling # 006 to only 70 pieces.
Be complete deficits in this.
200 pieces have to be sold minimally so that I get profit by CD-ROM.
However, it was able to sell only the a one-third.
On the other hand, an illegal copy is having a download more than 1000 only by the number that I am knowing.
This completely destroyed my profit.
Only a deficit is provided me as far as be spread an illegal copy even if makes new CD-ROM.
I am not working in order to get a deficit.
I must get money for a living of my family.
Because is owning a disease, my parents is necessary for the treatment costs.
I am thinking about a change of job seriously.

A condensed opinion sent me regarding this from Steve Martin:

        The "Engrish" is poor, but he speaks volumes for me and all furry artists. This is worst than mere stealing, this is going out of the way to ruin me and dozens of other struggling artists. We are not multi-billion dollar international conglomerates that measures the worst pirating on the right side of the decimal point. We do not have an armies of lawyers, or lobbyists, or even a meager guaranteed weekly paycheck.
        Illegal postings directly effects how many conventions I can afford to go to, and how many pieces of art I will do this year because it is not worth the time and cost to create a piece of art that will just be passed around for free.
        How does this effect you?? Its happening now....Thanks to Sibe and lesser pirates the market as a whole is shifting away from mass market prints and CDs to one-of-a-kind custom pieces for rich customers. That means I now have to work much harder for the same dollars, create far fewer pieces of art, unavailable as small art prints because they are too easy to pirate, and you would not buy them anyway because they have to be custom drawn to the individual tastes of one man...
        Oh, do not worry, there will always be plenty of easily pirated, third rate, student quality artwork out there for Sibe and his cronies, but if you want GREAT artwork, you will have to hunt for it,  get into a long line, pay hundreds of dollars, and wait a year or two for your single drawing....Oh, BTW, not all artists like this new, post-Sibe paradigm, so overall there will be fewer great artists who will bother to draw for you at any price.
        How am I so cock-sure??? next time you are at a convention, ask what ever happened to super greats like Guthrie, Sample, Shirmister, Ken Sample, and many others....They got tired of being ripped off by likes of Sibe....


Are you really not hurting artists?

I'm not really a part of the fandom. I don't know any artists nor am I familiar with most of the furry sites. Can someone link to more background of people like Sibe so I have a better understanding of whats going on?

If you're saying FChan specificly, I don't see how. Commercial works are DNP by default (even if there are free/public samples of a given piece). If it's put up, it's done by users (either those genuinely unaware its commercial, or those that try to get it to as many people as possible) before a mod deletes it.

Now, the other issue here is the artists themselves. Don't get me wrong. I fully agree with what you said. Artists do have the right to ask for money for their work. They should be compensated, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. However, I have to wonder why artists draw in the first place. Is it to only make money? Okay, fine. Is it because they like drawing and think they could make a buck or two off it? Also fine. But in the latter case, why must they "disappear" if they don't make any? They like drawing, the users like looking (otherwise they wouldn't pirate it, let alone look at any public work they may have). Unless people liking the art isn't something the artist cares about, it seems selfish to me that because they can't make money due to pirating, that nobody can see anything.

  I have never attempted to sell mass copies of any of my works.
Origionals have always been where I've pulled my income stream from furry art through. although I have sold my furry art to a couple of fanzines getting featured artist in both, that was the exception rather than the rule for myself tho, so things havent changed much for myself nor do  I see myself being forced to change my way of doing buisness as I have always operated on this model.
as for third rate - well others are buying the stuff at nice prices.
one type of artist dips another rises.
  The market and its conditions will force things to change!
Laws can only enforce a condition for so long especially in a medium like this where people can connect so easily.
(refering to the internet and simple search engines etc)
this all seems to very strongly be a reflection of what the market is actually doing. now please note im staying neutral in my opinion here just talking of what I see, My opinion is this sort of stuff sucks rather badly.
I would continue to toss my artwork out on the net for free even if I could make no money at it. tis just the way I am, and truthfully my art that hits the net makes me no money whatsoever. I already dont mind that.
peace out people
Couger

Porn is a pretty shady business be it regular porn or furry porn. I bet you most people feel worse about pirating just about any software/movies/tv show than they do about pirating porn.

Indeed. Nadia, can you from memory recall what artists have left the fandom over this? As your one of the few remaining "Late 70's" furs, you can possably provide a track a lot easyer then most.

>>>9 Indeed. But in furry, that's where the real money is and if your stuff all ends up on torrents and such, you can't make much money save for commissions.

Steve left out one point, the furry artists who -are- taking commissions are slowly drying up too. Be it too much time for too little return, annoying commissioners or a run of other things, slowly but surely your going to find yourself faced with a limited pick of artists. Terrie Smith? Doesn't take commissions anymore. Ratbat? Done with em too. Shawntae Howard? He's done with them too. Paf? As far as I know, he's pretty much done too.

The really sad thing to me is Sibe's got a market, a strong one that regardless of the cries of "I'll buy it if I like it" ..never do.

>>12
That's the 64,000 question.

So, you wouldn't buy a high-quality art book of Comet's artwork if instead you could download it?  I would.  I'd shell out $60 or $70 for a high-quality book.

Art books aren't an option for most Furry artists.   There are startup costs, but isn't the quality and skill of Dr. Comet is high enough to maybe capture a publisher's interest?

If an artist of the level of Dr. Comet can't get a publisher's interest, then maybe it's not possible to make a living off of Furry artwork, even if artists' rights were 100% respected.  If this is true, the community really needs to realize how important it is to respect artists rights and support artists.  Also, if this is true, artists need to realize that their market needs to be developed through exposure, etc. further and forums like fchan are necessary for it. 

>>13 Comet is a good artist but there's better out there then him and they can't get art books. Plus there's just one thing.

A furry porn art book. Think of that. No publisher with the means to do such a thing would go -near- that. Cartoon porn is still a huge ass no-no for mainstream publishers and small press books tend to avoid it. Of course he can't get it done.

And Nadia's stated the reasons artists add themselfs to the DNP list before.

Its only use is for porn and information, dont put anything up if you dont want it ripped off..

The problem you are missing is this: Dr. Comet never did put it on the internet. He made a number of CD-Roms (probably with full casing, print and inlay) which included images in several resolutions, some big enough to be used for proper prints, extra texts and other content. These were copied by one or more of his "customers" and put online...

The music and movie are preparing to combat piracy using DRM (digital rights management). Perhaps DRM can also help furry artists?

>>17
 I understand that, but why announce your a furry artist and put art up if you dont want it "stolen" ?

Personally, I don't mind posting my art online.  And I think just about all the stuff I've drawn (for publication, anyway) has been posted, at one time or another, on my own site (in the form of print or folio previews).
What ticks me off is when someone gets ahold of a portfolio, scans it at a high resolution, then posts it all over the place.  Obviously, if I'd wanted huge images of my stuff online, I would've posted them! 
I work a regular job, just like most other people do.  The one thing I can't get from my job, however, is any sort of insurance or medical assistance.  I've been denied numerous times by the state and county for any kind of assistance.  So, since my main job doesn't make enough money (it costs me about $500 extra per month for medicine just to stay alive), I rely on income from my furry art.  Why the furry art instead of my other artwork?  Because the furry stuff has the potential to sell better by being produced for a very specialized market.
Now, I'm not the kind of guy to up and call it quits just because some people are pirating my stuff.  But I'd be lying if I said I'm not gonna make it harder for them to do that.  Besides, I genuinely like drawing this stuff (amongst other things, of course).  If I didn't like it, I wouldn't do it, as I'm sure most other artists feel.

>>24 The thing is... all furry art ISN'T porno. All furry art is NOT porno. Keep that in mind, ok? Someone said the same thing a short time ago, and here it is again. The people who work on this aort of thing are working for three reasons, as I see it:

1) They're drawing because they enjoy drawing, and because they want to share their skill and ideas with other people.(Bear with me a second; I can hear the 'So why do they get mad if it gets stolen?' already.)

2)They found a specific area and type of art that they both could enjoy doing, get some fans (everyone enjoys being well known), and possibly make some money. They most likely didn't expect to end up rich, or even to be able to earn a living; they just wanted to be able to, in the end, they just wanted the extra money, and to >maybe< be able to come out on the top end.

3)They feel a connection or maybe even an obligation to those people who are their fans. They want to continue that income, and/or to give their fans (who are most likely to buy thier art), something to show both that they are still around, and that they're still drawing for them.

...And they get screwed by those same people. It's wrong to do something, trying to earn some money and give your fans some kind of attention, only to have those fans stab you in the back... Or to have someone else, knowing of those fans, screw you over for thier own twisted/greedy/selfish reasons.

As for the idea that artists are slowing down and specific commision style drawings is drying up; I've been waiting for over a year now for one commision that I paid for already... I'm hoping to see it, but if things keep going this way, I don't see it happening.

Bottom line is: Whatever way you look at it, for good or bad, if the art keeps getting stolen, the artists will go to other fields, and we the people who enjoy their art will be left to look at old images and wish we had paid some damn attention when we had the chance.

>>25
 1) If they truly enjoyed drawing as I do why do you need to make money off it? I mean money is nice but if you enjoy doing what you do shouldnt the fact that "HEY I DREW THAT" stick with you and be enough to satisfy you?

 2) Again, how can they enjoy something if their constantly bitching and moaning about art being stolen? Talent is wasted on those who dont deserve it, shit theres hundreds of people that would say "Man, i want to draw like Karabiner, I wouldnt even mind if my art was posted everywhere".

 3) If they felt such a connection why must they sell it? make money? Shouldnt the satisfaction and payment be knowing they helped people have an orgasm? or inspire them to draw?

Once I feel comfortable enough with my skill to re-release my art ill be fucking GLAD people try to steal my art, put it up, cause i know someone somewhere is getting off on it, if they have to put so much time and effort into stealing CDs, folios, pictures id be honored that they tried so hard to take it, means its worth something and I dont think alot of artists understand that, mainly premodonna "OMG ART THEIF".

And Im not saying all furry is porno as I am a furry artist myself, but the majority.. if not ALL furry porn artists are the ones who bitch and moan about it, why them?

>>28
 Eh smartest most well thought out thing ive ever heard here, "There will be bitching no matter what"

Honestly I was going to say that.. furry porn.. err art doesnt compare to mp3s, movies and videogames.

What Im bitching about that no one seems to understand is that them artists should feel proud they are having their stuff stolen, must be worth alot to other people, knowing that their art is admired and masterbated to.

>>27 >>30 "Enjoying drawing" and "enjoying sharing" are not the same thing, and niether one is the same as "enjoying drawing and sharing with everyone, including cheap, inconsiderate assholes"...

I can draw and enjoy drawing, and never share with anyone.  I can also enjoy drawing and sharing only with a select trusted few.  There's nothing to say that you, the unknown, random member of the internet viewing audiance has any impact at all on my enjoyment of my own ability to create and share. 

Which means if the fandom pisses me off, there's absolutely no reason at all why I'd keep sharing my work with fandom, since I still get everything I desire from the act of creating and sharing anyway.  The fandom just never get to see it, and from my perspective, that's its loss. 

As >>25 says, one day the fandom might find itself wishing it had been a little more considerate, a little more polite and maybe a little more grateful (though really, we should all be more grateful, in general, anyway) towards the artists that draw stuff for them.  This 'fuck the artists, their all whiney, greedy assholes' attitude that's been spreading through the fandom really isn't in the best interests of the fans. 

I, for one, find threads like this popping up every few weeks rather depressing, and really, I'm definitely tempted to just throw in the towel, and you can cross one more name of the list of competent fuurry artist's producing work for free.  (Or at all - drawing fuurry is an option, not a compulsion - I could just as easily draw anything else and it'd amount to the same pay-off, creatively speaking.) 

>>32

Not if enough artists get fed up enough with the either the fandom in general's cheapness(piracy) or pluralistic ignorance(constant reposting of images that shouldn't be reposted). Unless you really can get off to MSpaint pron.

>>27 If they truly enjoyed drawing as I do why do you need to make money off it?

They want to make money off it so that they can spend their time drawing. There are only 24 hours in a day, and if an artist has to work a full time job, that leaves less time to draw. Plus, drawing all day long would be much more enjoyable than slaving in a fast-food kitchen for 8 hours a day and only drawing for an hour or two.

>>27 id be honored that they tried so hard to take it, means its worth something

Not if it’s mixed in with the work of other less talented artists. Most collections of pirated furry art, be it image boards or bittorrents, throw together all sorts of art for mass consumption.

>>33


First of all, you are not all the artists. I don't care who you are, you dropping out is not going to make all the rest of them drop out. And even if they do leave one at a time, we're never going to "run out". There will always be new ones, or ones that aren't going to run away.

It's not that we treat artists with disdain. It's that some of us treat pathetic, whining people that can use a pencil with disdain. We're tired of artists that use "Well if you don't treat me right, I'll leave the fandom and never show my art again!" as a threat. Hey, guess what? We're tired of the threats and ultimatums.

Seriously. Leave.

In fact, I'm not just saying I don't care if you leave, I'm saying you should. I dunno who you are, you could be one of the greatest artists we all love, and at this point I don't care. Get the fuck out, take your stuff and go. This is your "OMG kicked outta da fandom!" notice.

... What? Not leaving? Could it be that all the grandstanding about possibly leaving and leaving all us poor little peons without art is just more attention whoring? Could you be one of those artists who in fact draws not for the love of the art, but the love of attention, of people commenting and gushing over the art? Are you in fact full of shit about leaving, because it would mean one less source of empty, mindless praise?

Go on. Prove me wrong. Put your "leaving fandom bye" where your mouth is. Do it. DO IT.

>>38


That's the really funny thing, everyone whining about how hard it would be for Komet to do that. He's in frikkin' JAPAN. People can get porn comics of women who have had their limbs amputated and upper lips split to make them look more like dogs as they're fucked up the ass by snarling Japanese men, I think Komet could manage to publish a little frikkin' furry porn.