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Xenofur at 5 May 2006: 11:06
>>280
You expressed a bit of confusion about the anonmity here, so if and when you read this, please have a look at this: http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/shiichan
It might help you understand and also show you how to deal with some of the posts in here. =)
Also, thanks to you and everyone else who manages to discuss this rather hot topic in a civil manner. :D
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Svansfall at 5 May 2006: 13:24
>>281
Thanks for the information, Xenofur. It is appreciated. :)
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DragonFlame at 5 May 2006: 15:09
>>251
No Problem. Im glad someone else is trying to think logically about the situation.
>>252
Human opinion does matter. A parent opinion and the laws opinions clearly state that sex is wrong until a certain age. But the only reason people make these decision for them is because they know that latter on in life they will regret and become traumatised by the encounter.
If an animal never reaches a stage of regret and becomes traumatised then this does not apply.
I believe it is possible for an animal to feel regret and become traumatised but for this to be true then the concept of consent must apply to Animals.
>>253
Do you really believe that Humans are the only species on this earth that finds pleasure in sex. An animal just like us is not programmed to think about procreating, we don’t need to. Nature has figured out a better system called sexual gratification. Sexual gratification is the tool that urges animals and us to reproduce. If we didn’t enjoy sex we wouldn’t do it thus there would be no life on earth. I do not believe that any animal has the thought of procreation in their mind while having sex. Pregnation is just a consequence of the sexual encounter. Animals just don’t seem to mind or just don’t understand the consequences of sex. Don’t think for one minute that Humans have this ability to waver these sexual urges either. If a human finds his girlfriend arousing he will do anything (Mostly irrational things) to bump her. If a Human finds his horse arousing he will do the same. If the horse finds the concept of having sex with a human arousing then of course it will fuck its brains outs.
>>254
I agree lack of proof only leaves more questions not opposite answers.
>>255
You may need to explain that better. I can see where you’re coming from but when an Animal enters its heat cycle it has a strong desire to have sex. They may not want it but you don’t have any proof to back that up. Please explain more.
>>261
I am sorry to see you go. It has been a pleasure to discuss this matter with some one of intelligence and understanding. I wish you all the best.
>>262
I happen to agree with you. My belief is that sex without the ability to procreate is not natural and should not be done. One thing you must understand tho is who is to say what is unnatural or wrong. We do not have the ability as a species to decide the laws of nature of every living thing on this earth. We also do not have the right to enforce these beliefs for the fact that our opinions may be wrong. Why do so many people then think that their opinions are right and people not following their rules must be evil and misguided.
>>263
Unconstructive comment.
>>264
Quite true. Unfortunately a lot of these records of bestiality have been destroyed by religious groups. Have you found any sites to support this?
>>265
Yep also true. I also believe that what most people consider to be Furry was actually started in ancient Greece. Many murals have depicted half animal and half human creatures.
>>269
Even tho I have never put my dick in an Animal and never plan to either I have the compelling need to tell you to GET LOST. Half of the comments in this thread are saying the same thing over and over. Get over your self and find some thing constructive to say.
>>270 & >>271
I’m glad you agree.
>>272
You have obviously not read the heading of this Thread. It is the morality not the legality of Bestiality.
To all those out there that believe that Bestiality lovers are giving Furrys a bad name consider this. Bestiality has been around thousands of years and has been depicted in art and literature. Over time these depictions have been watered down and altered through history until this day. Bestiality unfortunately has been apart of human nature for so long that these attractions to creatures you call Furry are nothing but the watered down versions of bestiality. So saying that bestiality lovers are latching on to Furry groups and giving them a bad name is false. In fact Furry groups have latched on to bestiality but because they can not accept the reality of animal sex they find a happy medium in half animal artwork.
The unfortunate truth is that Furry was started by Bestiality and the proof is right in front of your eyes every time you look at a furry creature in a sexual position.
Another thing saying that having sex with an animal is a fail in life can be considered true but jacking off to led on paper really aint much better.
I know that by posting this I’m going to get at least 20 or more people grabbing my words and twisting them around so remember this. I am a natural part in this convo. I am not for bestiality nor against it. What I have written is not supposed to sway your decision on the matter but to inform you of some point that people seem to keep missing when arguing their opinions.
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Juberu#3LrT5NRVks at 5 May 2006: 17:23
Why do so many people then think that their opinions are right and people not following their rules must be evil and misguided.
Well, that's kinda the whole idea of an opinion. Sometimes, we can't all be right.
Bestiality has been around thousands of years and has been depicted in art and literature.
...And?
Bestiality unfortunately has been apart of human nature for so long that these attractions to creatures you call Furry are nothing but the watered down versions of bestiality.
Where are you getting this from? Almost all cultures try to associate animals with human virtues, and anthromorphize animals.
In fact Furry groups have latched on to bestiality but because they can not accept the reality of animal sex they find a happy medium in half animal artwork.
There's a not-insignificant amount of furs who do both.
The unfortunate truth is that Furry was started by Bestiality and the proof is right in front of your eyes every time you look at a furry creature in a sexual position.
Circular argument. Furry came from bestiality which started furry.
Another thing saying that having sex with an animal is a fail in life can be considered true but jacking off to led on paper really aint much better.
What? Assuming, for the sake of argument, that having sex with an animal is rape, then how is that barely better than masturbation?
What I have written is not supposed to sway your decision on the matter but to inform you of some point that people seem to keep missing when arguing their opinions.
Funny, I could've sworn it was just a bunch of unsupported statements.
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at 5 May 2006: 18:48
You people...
This whole discussion is POINTLESS. Nothing is going to come of it so please just give up. Nobody is going to convince anyone into changing their mind on either side of the issue. Beastiality exists, it's always existed, it's never going to disappear. If you don't like it, don't do it. Just...somehow...get over it. PLEASE.
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at 5 May 2006: 18:52
There is no defined goal for this discussion. View it as an excercise in reasoning, rethoric and most importantly: Intelligence.
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at 5 May 2006: 19:02
>>287
Well by the looks of it, there's not a whole lot of any of that going on here anyway. So it might as well just be over. :P
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at 5 May 2006: 19:06
Any debate over the 'morality' of something is just an excercise in futility anyway. Morality is such a loose and vague concept that it really has no true hold on anything.
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at 5 May 2006: 19:55
>>280
Oh man that makes me nautious. My grandfather had an enormous cattle ranch with only about a hundred cows on it, they defenitely had many acres to stretch there legs. Even with the size of the place the smell was absolutely horrid. And how when they shit it just kindof slops down there backside over there genitals, i couldn't imagine being turned on by that. All they do is stand around, shit, eat, and shit some more, truly an animal that is destined to be killed and eaten.
My guess of what attracts you to animals is:
1.) They don't care about appearence
2.) They don't care if you're successful or well groomed
3.) They can't reject you.
4.) You don't need to put in any work with them
5.) They can be acquired merely by writing a check
6.) They can't tell anybody what you are doing to them
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at 5 May 2006: 20:01
>>235
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCUUgTs4hjs&search=waiting
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A Wolf at 6 May 2006: 03:39
OK, for all those who hate beastiality and or zoophila, let me clarify this much. Animals do have the ability to consent, they just believe in oppurtunity a heck of alot more than we do. Let's take an example for some of you lust mongers out there. Say the sexiest thing you can think of comes up and asks you to have sex with her (or him) with no strings attached. Would you say yes or no? Most of you would say yes, some would say no, true. And believe me, canines can say no other ways than jus speaking. You see those one inch long teeth in their mouth? Imagine those around your dick. That's there way of saying no. When the urge to mate comes on, you'll screw anything, even someone you trust. Sometimes love can bond through it, even if it's not really there. I myself personally am in love with my dog, and she loves me as far as I can tell. Personally, I wish she could have my pups, but unfortunately she can't, so I gotta deal with it. And in fact, I find her more attractive than most furs, and if you find that to be disturbing, then fuck off, that's my opinion.
Alot of animals have a choice. Most just choose the choice that ends up with sex. You would too if offered it by someone you trust and care for, wouldn't you? And if you say no, then why the hell are you on a yiff image posting board?
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at 6 May 2006: 03:48
....why the hell are you on a yiff image posting board?
I've been wondering similar to this since the topic started. Why is this convo even taking place? This is Fchan, not the 7th-Day-Adventist-chan.
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Foxstar#3GqYIJ3Obs at 6 May 2006: 04:08
>>293 Because it's F-chan and this is the only place it would be not only be taken seriously but have somewhat meaningful talk.
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Huh at 6 May 2006: 06:36
>>292
Uh, no, you're just saying animals can consent, while the other side says they can't. Neither side has proven it at all. All they've proven is that animals are pretty stupid, thus, lettting of the sex, slavery, and slaughter. Dogs that bite people are killed, and docile dogs are bred for better placidity.
...
Actually, I guess you could say that domesticated animals have been altered so that they consent to everything, including sex using. Sucks to be them, but whatever. There's bigger problems in the world than a bunch of perverts who can't handle the guilt of their own kink.
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at 6 May 2006: 07:48
>>295 I suppose that somehow magicaly explains ones interactions with a couple of semi friendly timber wolves, and or anothers interactions with a house kept cougar.
domesticated into complacancy as the only reason an animal will mount a human -.............umn no.
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at 6 May 2006: 08:19
>>296
Just as there's humans that think it's a good idea to swallow razor blades, there's mentally unstable animals that get inexplicably friendly with people. Unless it's common it explains nothing.
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DragonFlame at 6 May 2006: 09:51
>>284
-Quote-
Why do so many people then think that their opinions are right and people not following their rules must be evil and misguided.
Well, that's kinda the whole idea of an opinion. Sometimes, we can't all be right.
-Quote-
My point is that people seem to think that their opinions are some written law that everyone should follow.
-Quote-
Bestiality has been around thousands of years and has been depicted in art and literature.
...And?
-Quote-
Just pointing out fact. Don’t be an arse about it.
-Quote-
Bestiality unfortunately has been apart of human nature for so long that these attractions to creatures you call Furry are nothing but the watered down versions of bestiality.
Where are you getting this from? Almost all cultures try to associate animals with human virtues, and anthromorphize animals.
-Quote-
That is exactly my point.
-Quote-
The unfortunate truth is that Furry was started by Bestiality and the proof is right in front of your eyes every time you look at a furry creature in a sexual position.
Circular argument. Furry came from bestiality which started furry.
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In what fucking universe is that considered a Circular Argument. Bestiality was started first then Bestiality Artwork after that and then Furry Artwork which is nothing but watered down bestiality artwork.
-Quote-
Another thing saying that having sex with an animal is a fail in life can be considered true but jacking off to led on paper really aint much better.
What? Assuming, for the sake of argument, that having sex with an animal is rape, then how is that barely better than masturbation?
-Quote-
You have totally missed my point. I don’t believe Animal sex is Rape. My point is that having sex with something other than the opposite sex of your species is a fail at life. Stop putting words in my mouth and twisting my words around.
-Quote-
What I have written is not supposed to sway your decision on the matter but to inform you of some point that people seem to keep missing when arguing their opinions.
Funny, I could've sworn it was just a bunch of unsupported statements.
-Quote-
Exactly what am I supposed to be supporting when I am neither for or against Bestiality. I am not trying to change peoples minds by giving them facts. I am only trying to make people think about things that they may have not thought of.
Let me repeat my word again.
I know that by posting this I’m going to get at least 20 or more people grabbing my words and twisting them around so remember this. I am a natural part in this convo. I am not for bestiality nor against it. What I have written is not supposed to sway your decision on the matter but to inform you of some point that people seem to keep missing when arguing their opinions.
You are exactly the type of person I’m talking about. You don’t care to open your mind and think about others opinions. Instead you grab the words of others and twist them around and add in things to benefit your own opinions.
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Juberu#3LrT5NRVks at 6 May 2006: 10:24
My point is that people seem to think that their opinions are some written law that everyone should follow.
No, they think that their opinions are right, at least.
That is exactly my point.
And my point is that wanting animal traits does not equal bestiality.
Exactly what am I supposed to be supporting when I am neither for or against Bestiality. I am not trying to change peoples minds by giving them facts. I am only trying to make people think about things that they may have not thought of.
My point is that they *aren't* facts, just things you said without backup.
You have totally missed my point. I don’t believe Animal sex is Rape. My point is that having sex with something other than the opposite sex of your species is a fail at life. Stop putting words in my mouth and twisting my words around.
Fail at life is an Internet meme. In the context of this debate, it means nothing. I just guessed at what you meant, not twisted the meaning.
You don’t care to open your mind and think about others opinions.
Thinking about the opinions of others is not the same as agreeing with said opinions.
Instead you grab the words of others and twist them around and add in things to benefit your own opinions.
Give one example.
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at 6 May 2006: 10:31
women trainers are told to avoid being around big cats while they are in menstrating as teh large cat will attempt to rape the human .
this hardly seems like an isolated mental aberation - sources - big cat traners handbook and various other places ive read such .
oh btw 300 get
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Svansfall at 6 May 2006: 10:45
>>290
Feel free to feel nautious. It is your own opinion, and you have the full right of your own opinion. So your grandfather's cows smelled bad? I do not disbelieve you. Some cows do smell bad, and I am not attracted to those, even though they may be having great personalities. That does not mean that I would not still treat them with kindness and caring, just that I do not find them physically attractive. If the cows have their own natural scent, or somehow start smelling bad has a lot to do with which surroundings they are in, what they eat, etc.
Cows that retain their natural scent do smell good. I can actually not think of anything that smells more appealing to me. However, it is not very kind of you speak of cows as if they were stupid and unable to do things. I have had cows who were more brainy and clever than some of the dogs I have had. You just have to give them the opportunity to use their mind. Give them the chance, and they will surprise you. Teach them things... you'll find they are not stupid. They deserve to be treated with respect.
Since some of your guesses of why I am attracted to animals has to do with wheter humans are attracted to me or not, please then explain to me why I have to turn down offers from people who wants to have sex with me? Maybe I should somehow make myself unattractive so I don't have to get the offers in the first place. I do not want sex with humans. If I was attracted to humans, I would have sex with humans. It is as simple as that. I've sadly lost friends who I enjoyed the company of, because I did not want to have sex with them.
Animals can't reject me? Well, they can. As mentioned before, some animals do like to be stimulated, and some does not. I only have sex with those who want it, and when they want it. When they want to reject me, they do reject me. I am happy with that, it means that they truly do enjoy it when they come up to me and ask for sex.
I don't need to put in any work with them? Oh, so you are thinking they don't need to be fed, groomed, cared for, etc?
And I should also mention to you that I have lived many years in non-sexual, but emotional relationships with other humans. So, work still has to be put in to make those relationships with humans work. I love humans, just not in a sexual way. If I would find it a bother to try and make relationships work, I would choose to live alone.
If the animals could talk, and tell others of what I am doing with them, I would not be bothered. Why would I?
You have the right to your opinion, but it's a bit rude of you to make so many assumptions of the private life and the feelings of someone you do not know. Still, it is interesting to read your thoughts.
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Svansfall at 6 May 2006: 10:52
Oh, and just a general pondering to DragonFlame and Jubero: Wheter someone is a failure in life or not, doesn't that depend on what their goals is to start with?
Since my goal is to spend my life giving pleasure and caring for cows, I would consider myself a failure if I did not.
For instance, if a lesbian woman's goal was to live in a happy relationship with the woman of her dreams, and she ends up actually doing this, would you consider her to be a "failure" since she wasn't married to a man, even though she never wanted to marry a man?
If people end up where they wanted, how are they "failures?"
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at 6 May 2006: 11:39
because those people who are so called failures are not living up to what the perspon saying "failure" thinks they should live up to. and the person saying "failure" has suddenly gained the authority to judge who is or isn't a failure.
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at 6 May 2006: 14:55
>>303
People who fucks dogs are failures
FACT
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at 6 May 2006: 15:27
>>304
refer to >>291
You're all on FCHAN people. Discussing morality at all on a site like this is just...inane.
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at 6 May 2006: 15:30
>>304
Dude you're on fchan. You don't really have the right to call anyone else a 'failure'. :P
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at 6 May 2006: 15:56
People who don't fuck dogs are failures.
FACT
(Whoa, I can do it too...)
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at 6 May 2006: 20:45
>>307 wow your better at it as well, so I choose to believe you.
surprisingly a large amount of zoophiles make it much further and into much better paying jobs than non zoophiles.
gleaned from 3 databases cross corelating non individual targeting data mined from the apa and aza. if one cares to invest any anergy a small amount of digging can glean you hard statistical data as well.
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This took forever to read! at 6 May 2006: 20:48
>>298
Seriously?
You are exactly the type of person I’m talking about. You don’t care to open your mind and think about others opinions. Instead you grab the words of others and twist them around and add in things to benefit your own opinions.
And here, >>283
No Problem. Im glad someone else is trying to think logically about the situation.
I am sorry to see you go. It has been a pleasure to discuss this matter with some one of intelligence and understanding. I wish you all the best.
About This guy?
>>64 >>67 >>92 >>94 >>106 >118 >>119 >>122 >>123 >>217 >>248 >>254 >>256
Dude, you just basically complimented the intelligence of someone who argues the pro-beast side that does everything you apparently don't like. He twists words, he ignores what people say, he puts words in their mouths, he dismisses animal/human comparisons then makes some to prove HIS points, he says insulting makes you weak then says anyone against him is ignorant or monstrous. Then you say that Juberu, who's done that like a quarter as much, but is against bestiality, is somehow doing something wrong. WTF? It's okay for the pro bestiality guys to argue like that but not anti bestiality? Yeah, you're real neutral there buddy.
Besides, BOTH sides keep stating "facts". Facts are scientific truths based on universals which are necessary for logic. What you were stating was just a bunch of stuff that doesn't even mean anything for the most part... well, not if you're going to dismiss the child mind/animal mind argument.
Here's a fact. NONE OF YOU KNOW WHAT THE ANIMAL THINKS!!! None of You! Both sides are basing everything off of their opinions, and the pro-beasters think this is grounds for live and let live. Well think about it this way. If anti-bestiality types think of it as animal rape, and they LIKE animals, what makes you think they'll just sit there and look the other way? If they did that, thinking what they do, they WOULD be monsters.
>> 253
Right on! It's like drugs. Yes it's self indulgent. Yes it bothers people, yet you do it anyway. Yes it's frowned upon EVERYWHERE. If it isn't legal, you can sure as hell bet it's still not something you just talk about. There's all kinds of cultural stigmas. You aren't doing the animal a favor. You aren't enlightened for fucking your pets. Yes there are worse people in the world. If you do this, you are a FREAK! You are extremely different from the norm! Deal with it, hide what you do, and you know what, go ahead, cause for the most part, as long as they don't have to see it, people don't care about you OR your dog.
If you bring it out in the open, don't bitch about it, cause you KNOW that people have a problem with it. If it bothers you that people have a problem with it, either teach your dog to talk so the "myth" that animals can't consent can be dispelled, or quit fucking your dog! You can't fuck your dog, talk about it, and not be shunned or punished. That's how things work in the perfect egocentric world in your head. In the real world, everything from conservatives, bible thumpers, intellectual snots, and hard core animal rights activists are going to hate you if they catch you doing it.
Since when has anyone given a flying fuck about morality when they go to do something anyway? People do shit they shouldn't do all the time, but they don't act like its right. "Oh, its okay for me to throw this trash on the ground, because I'm really lazy and don't want to walk over there or carry it, but I'll make up some convoluted argument to make it okay for me to do this... but oh, by the way, grafiti is wrong, just littering is okay!" Just live with it!
***
And as for you guys who contribute to the discussion because you think it's long and tired, give your head a shake!
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at 6 May 2006: 20:54
>>269
Thank you, this seriously shouldn't be debated. I mean you're fucking creatures that eat there own poo and aren't even aware they exist. They run on instinct, which is eat, drink, fuck, period.
Oh right, LOL, you love them and they love you back the same way. It's cruel, sick and jesus christ, think of the animal? How confused do you this makes it?
Sick bastards
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Sarcasmo! at 6 May 2006: 21:10
>>310
Another brilliant, well thought out argument from the anti-bestiality side... "It's wrong cuz it's gross" "It's wrong because I don't like it." "It's wrong because God/the Law/my daddy said so..." And the ever popular, "It's wrong just because it is!!!11"
Well I'm convinced. Such persuasive, unassailable arguments are just astounding!
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at 6 May 2006: 21:22
>>310
Yet again...refer to >>291
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at 6 May 2006: 21:28
>>310
Okay the whole bestiality thing aside...
And how do you know how an animal feels? I doubt you've ever even been around an animal. When you work with them all day, especially dogs, you eventually pick up that they are VERY self aware and emotional. They're much more than instinct alone.
Now straight guys, that's a whole different matter entiretly. :P
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at 6 May 2006: 21:36
>>311
Okay, so his argument falls flat. Why not respond to one of the well thought out ones instead?
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at 6 May 2006: 21:54
>>314
Which ones would that be? They're all just long winded and pompous self-indulgence. "I'm right! You're wrong! WAAHHH" is all any of them amount to.
(On both sides by the way)
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at 6 May 2006: 21:59
>>315
Some of them are good, but yeah, for the most part...
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at 6 May 2006: 22:01
>>316
It's just that none of them have presented FACTS yet. It's all just bullshit opinion. This is why 'morality' discussions are pointless. It's all based on NOTHING.
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at 6 May 2006: 22:02
>>317
Uh... when you mean "facts", do you mean scientifically proven facts? Cause, you know, the entirety of civilization is built on assumption and opinion.
Besides, yes they have. Both sides have presented facts, and lots of them. Read the posts... even the long ones, or at least don't comment on them if you don't.
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at 6 May 2006: 22:09
>>318
Dude most of these 'facts' that people have presented are nothing more than very loose and vague information. None of which have been very successful in proving ANYTHING. :P
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at 6 May 2006: 22:20
>>319
Oh well then, just ignore it and leave it alone so people who are interested can read it then. You aren't bringing anything at all to this discussion other than the sulky "it's pointless" remark.
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