GrapeTang#90uMe5dJAk at 30 May 2006: 21:53
Aw for christ's sake man, grow up.
I'll take a crack at this.
Okay, I am sorry for those horrible descriptions, but since maybe not all of you have visited slaughterhouses in person, I had to describe some of what is actually going on.
Aw christ, now I've got to admit that my credibility is even "lower" in your opinion, but I worked at a meat packing plant just getting out of highschool. (Lakeside, Brooks Alberta, for those of you who think I'm just saying that). I wasn't a day shifter, I did the night stuff... and the place was a nightmare. The rendering trap was especially gross... but you know what, that was the aftermath.
Heavy heavy heavy regulations were the key there. Animals were killed instantly with a bolt through the brain, not drugged and having their throats slit. Animals are stored in facilities that are inspected weekly to make sure storage conditions are humane. No cows arrived dead, and if they did, the driver would be charged, the farmer could be charged (if he was at fault), and we wouldn't do business with them again (but again, it never came up). When being transported, there's guidelines and regulations to make sure the cows don't overheat, suffocate, get battered around, etc.
The grisly images you portray just don't happen where I come from. Where the hell do you live? What you described is just medieval.
I know I expressed myself clumsily in this matter. Your opinion is relevant in itself, but I just don't fully understand where you are coming from. I find it very strange how someone who is actively supporting harmful acts to animals (by supporting meat industry), can disapprove of acts to animals, which are harmless and gives pleasure to the animals. I do not fully understand the logic between this connection.
Slow down there chief. I'm here because you dragged meat eating into it. I didn't disapprove of what you did with your animals. I didn't really care to tell you the truth. I came into this because you started hiding behind the "It's not as bad as people who eat meat" defense, which targets me, and probably a whole lot of other neutrals in this.
I didn't think you were morally wrong for doing it. I just don't think you're morally right, and it bugs me that you play the "meat is murder" card.
Yes, you're fully correct that it bothers me a lot, more than a lot. But I am hoping I managed to explain properly above that it is the act that I am against, not the people committing the act. If people couldn't get along with people who had different views, then nobody could get along in this world. I don't think many people have ever met someone who agreed 100% upon everything.
What? I don't get along with people who do things that I think are bad. Hell, I've protested a couple of times, I've fought a bully, I've reported crimes, I've shunned people. If I think what you're doing is bad, I try to stop you. It's sort of the responsible thing to do. I can't imagine just sitting there and looking away if someone was doing something I truly had a problem with. Maybe if it was just annoying... but even then I tend to say things.
I don't think what you're doing is that big a deal, but others DO, and that's why they get in your face about it. They aren't just "sort of annoyed" or "a little disgusted". Think about it. For whatever reason, a lot of people think you should go to jail for what you do. That says to me that their convictions are pretty strong. The fact that some of them are animal rights activists can't make things easy either...
To me, it is no longer-lasting harm if someone tells me I am disgusting or an animal rapist. I feel sad for a moment, and I feel that it is not right for them to call me that, but it doesn't creep into my mind to make me bothered for any longer periods of times. But as I say in post 603, some young people who are zoophiles are already sensitive and I believe if they get too much hostility and intolerance showed towards them, that it can lead to long-lasting depressions or possibly harm that might last the rest of their lives.
Again man, I seriously doubt these people are just hating on zoophiles just to hear themselves talk. They have reasons for what they think. If I were to identify my biggest problem with it (explaining why I'm neutral at best rather than a supporter), I would quote some guy from way earlier in this thread. "Why sex?" You can bring pleasure to animals without touching their genitals, so I don't think it's on the animal's behalf that you're doing that. It's an unreasonable jump for a lot of us to go between petting and masturbation.
I don't think you're doing it because the animal likes it, I think you're doing it because YOU like it. The animal liking it is just a good excuse for you... but that's my opinion, and even though I think that, I don't think it's a big deal... not enough to want terrible things to happen to you. I don't think you're a victim though. You know what you're doing, and you know people are against it, some of them violently. Old and young zoos are just going to have to put up with that unless you actually step up to the task of explaining it seriously.
And since you play the meat eater card... you'd also be explaining it to people who make their livlihood off of what you describe as torture. The entire meat industry, including shipping, testing, preparing and cooking, selling... how many million people would lose their jobs if you got your way? How many people would be much less happy?
From where I'm sitting, all the anti-zoos are asking you is to give up sex with cows. I can't see that ruining your life like giving up meat would ruin so many others.
Crap, I'm babbling.