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Singulus Is Totus Sicco

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Sleeper#CrHjhzsFuc#t1N75WcMn1KzOfL at 18 Sep 2006: 22:54

Weary eyed and drug-induced fatigue,I was surfing the web and saw some files that make my head hurt just thinking about. I'm not as keen as others are about the community but... Anyway, Heres what happened.

A friend on Furnet sent me a link to a site with various flashes related to the Furry Fandom. Whats odd is I came across various(and seperated) files relating to The Tail Underground.

Now I'm certain a few of you know all about this. But there seemed to be two or more versions which all seemed different. Being as clumsy as I am with the internet alone I couldnt quite figure it all out... So...

What happened to The Tail Underground anyway? On Furnation theres that one version that hasnt been updated in ages. But I saw a different version...
Has Mr. Soulfox(Kalvin Taylor) changed hosting or have a different TTU somewhere on the internet, or did I just stumble across some really old files that nobodies seen in ages?

I'd like to know more about it... Sorry if this is all jumbled about. But once my medicine kicks in I just lose a bit of management at keeping together a coherent message.

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Foxstar#3GqYIJ3Obs at 19 Sep 2006: 05:42

I'll see if I can get Ian to post. Basicly, life happened, along with a bad case of being sick of the fandom, sick of the "OMG WHY DUN'T YOU DO MORE M/F, I DUN CARE IF UR GAY", and feeling the project quickly outgrew him caused him to just not bother with it for the longest time.

He is working on a update and hopes to have it up before the year's end, but as he doesn't have a copy of the 'old' info before the infamous Holloween party, he has to redraw/redo all the backgrounds, characters and whatnot (Yes, he drew that all by hand and used Flash to bring it to life) Right now the main thing I hear is he dislikes his limited Flash learning and needs help, but at the same time is wary due to the infamous troubles that always come when you have more then two people working on
something.

Ian's not forgotten the fans of the TTU, he just needs time and help.

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Ian R. Soulfox at 19 Sep 2006: 06:53

I really don't want to post here. I tend to find sites like this rather unfriendly and this "F the artists" mentality I see now and then doesn't make me comfortable at all even visiting this site. However, Foxstar prodded me into trying to respond to this.  Might want to sit down, this is going to be a long one.

To answer your first question: Yes, there were several older versions of the Tail Underground. The original only had like maybe 3 or 4 rooms and included a sort of zooming interface where when you clicked on one of the characters, it would zoom up close to chat with them. I think I introduced that first version in August of 2002. From that base, I expanded on it and added the halloween and new years party versions of the site.

These versions still used the original setup and code, and were also rather limited to a few rooms. The New Years party was created as a big commission where I allowed a certain number of furs.. 15 to 20 to appear in the tavern, hence the big orgy scene in the bar. It was to be an annual thing but I gave up on it after finding it just not worth it to repeat. With that many characters, I needed full access to them and their placement in the tavern depended on what I felt best would work. I can understand people being protective of their characters, but the demands from their owners made a repeat of this sort of thing impossible.

After that, I did go back to the drawing board and recreate the tavern, backgrounds and all in a attempt to make it more streamlined, I added scrolling to certain rooms and also attempted some faux 3d zooming effects. I also introduced the bathing hall as well as the characters Xi and Ting to the mix. Not too long after, I had created the halloween edition of that site, containing all of the updates that the latest version of the regular edition had, plus more additions, like the alternate takes on some of the rooms during the after hours segments.

I had a unfortunate accident with some of my backup files and lost the original versions of some of these files, as well as my laptop. Mainly the first iteration of the Underground as well as the revamped version. All I had left was the halloween version of the site that while now nearly 3 years old is THE most current version there. I could try to go in and revert some of the files in that edition, wipe away all of the halloween items and whatnot, but finding the time for that is difficult.

I had to step back from the site for a while since I saw a lot of things going on in the fandom I didn't exactly care to deal with. The lack of respect towards the artists wishes was a primary one. I do constantly see people saying that they'd love to have their art scattered all across the net, that it should be a priveledge, but I can't think in the way they do. I tended to be rather protective of my work because ut's rather special to me and that I preferred people to have access to it in only one place so that I know that people are at least seeing the updates, or my messages on the site. Seeing it on some other website doesn't exactly give me any feedback. I particularly didn't appreciate seeing one of my animations being used as a promo for some pay site.

I also don't in any way care for the types that seek out contacting people for the sole purpose of harassing or trolling them because of their artwork. Many would just say to grow a thick skin but I still don't want to deal with that sort of crap. I also prefer to protect my identity online since while it seems unlikely, you never know who may hold your job in jeopardy if they happen to run across something you did online that they don't like.

I also tend to be deadly serious about only wanting people of legal age to view my work. I know it's unrealistic to believe that people would actually repsect those warnings but in this lawsuit crazy country, I rather not take any risks. Recieving a rather graphic account from a 14 year old about how he got off to my animation work did not make me feel any better about the work I was creating.

Sorry if this turned into a long post, but I just had to get a lot of that off my chest. As far as the older versions are concerned, I'd prefer to use the latest edition since save for a few graphics that were in the original release, almost everything I used in the past I carried over to the newest version.

Anyway, I guess I'll shut up now and wait for the flame brigade.. they always come after all.

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Xenofur at 19 Sep 2006: 08:11

thanks for taking the time and @ flame brigade: don't worry, i'll be keeping an eye on this. =)

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Sleeper#CrHjhzsFuc#fkcNGMfuKT/9bGj at 19 Sep 2006: 13:03

>>3
Say No More. I was just curious. I understand completely.
Thank you for taking the time to brave this place to answer a fan. Now that's one less mystery solved.

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Foxstar#3GqYIJ3Obs at 19 Sep 2006: 13:24

Thank you Ian for expanding on what limited stuff I knew.

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Kozack#3usJAc.07c at 12 Oct 2006: 02:28

Ian, as far as you say towards how you're told to "grow thick skin" screw it... I know how hard it can be to deal with some things like hate and slander, maybe not over art, but over other things, some people -namely me- just can't handle "Toughening up" the way people act these days, no wonder a lot of people end up with counceling and the such. I'm all for you pushing away from things. Just don't let yourself forget the enjoyable side of things ^^

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stevefarfan at 12 Oct 2006: 13:03

Well, while I have thick skin, I have limits too.

I'm okay with people sharing my art
I'm okay with people drawing my characters doing things they normally wouldn't
I'm okay with people making fan-stories with my characters
I'm okay with people making jokes about me

however...
I'm NOT okay with people profiting from my games or art in any monetary way.
I'm NOT okay with people pretending my art is theirs
I'm NOT okay with people who contact me to insult me
I'm NOT okay with people sharing my art with kids

As for the job in jeopardy thing, I think that's always a possiblity, and in order to shield myself from it, i'm trying to become my own boss as soon as possible.  That way I can take artistic risks, and make all sorts of crazy sho-rizzle.

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Saadow at 15 Oct 2006: 08:09

Ian, just want to take a moment to say hello, love your artwork, and I really apprecate seeing a person with morals and ethics in todays society, even when it's hard for me to say such, considering my own lack of them.

Your a wonderful artist, and considering the society surrounding peoples reactions to art on the Internet, you take a brave step foreward posting your work to others, even if it's on one medium that you control, I know plenty of artists that keep their work offline, simply because of the same concerns you and thousands of other artists have.

A problem in today's society is the age of maturity, we were of a generation that states it's necessary and proper to protect a child's innocense and purity until they've reached a point in their life where both exposure and their own intelligence lead to their understanding in matters they once did not. However, have you ever walked by a school, or a local hangout for the younger kids, and taken notice how they dress? Unless in conservaive societies, or controlled communities such as the Amish, or the Menonite people, children today in America--I can't speak for anyone else--at the age of ten, even younger sometimes, dress as if pop stars. Their stomachs are exposed, they wear heavy makeup, and I've even seen them wear short mini-skirts, with slits. -Slits-. The caliber of today's society, the condition of the home and the Laize-Faire attitude of parenting, is certainly a factor in these changes. Twelve year olds have come home pregnant to their families, and some of them even forced to drastic measures or carrying the child to term, when they aren't capable of responsibly taking care of the child. (By proxy, they weren't even responsible enough to choose how to use their body correctly, and when, but that's aside the point and not true for cases of rape, and if anyone's suffered such an attack please understand, my heart extends to you in understanding. Please realise the spirit of what I'm saying.)

Now let's look at the internet. Did you ever notice, that even with google's safe search enabled, you can STILL get pornographic links? And their software is solid and trusted! We must realise, that in todays society, dispite if we find it right or wrong, we cannot deny the facts of what happens. If a child is old enough to understand how to use the internet, creative enough to use it unsupervised, intelligent enough to find your art, and the mediums it's posted on, and learned enough to use their body to find release or 'get off' on it, then we really need to ask: What innocense are we protecting here?

In all honesty, when I was much younger, I used to do the same thing too. It was a fantastic way for me to letmy imagination run wild and help remove the stress I had in my daily life for just a little while. Especially before I moved to a private school.

And I agree with all on the point of information security concerning jobs. Dealing with this stuff in the job market is just not the way you want to go. Did either of you see the CSI episode concerning the Anthros? That popular media did not put a great slant on it, because you had the average person's perspective on what happens. This might make people who watch the show curious, and might actively look at the fandom, and seeing some names whispered about might give people or potential employers some ideas.

Anyway, again, thank you so much Ian for talking to us, and even though you have a very respectable reason not to be around the community, I can speak for myself saying you'd be welcome to be seen again. Please understand the spirit of my post, if anyone found something in here inflamatory, I'm very sorry, and I will try in the future to be more sensitive.

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Archangel Kane at 20 Oct 2006: 00:40

Damn.  My respect for Ian just ten folded... I'm going to now send him a respectable email, letting him know just how fucking awesome he is.

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NA at 20 Oct 2006: 09:25

Ian, everyone goes through burn out at some point, I think that might be where you are at now. Take a break from the fandom for a while, it's totaly healthy. You're a loved artist who puts out wonderful work. It's sad that there are @$$holes out there that find enjoyment in spreading hate and negativiey with flaming and what not. I feel for you cause I know what it's like. But you dont do artwork for them, you do it for us, your fans, and the people who love you, never forget that, and never forget that you' are loved here.

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Ian R. Soulfox at 20 Oct 2006: 15:20

I was directed back to this thread after some time and I admit, I'm rather surprized by the response. Either way, thank you for understanding.

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at 20 Oct 2006: 17:47

you responded nicely to us,
be well ian

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Fatal_Glory_128 at 24 Oct 2006: 01:08

I understand you're situation, and I'm usually a bit more liberal than most.  I can tell that Ian is a bit more conservative, but still.  My view is that people are going to do what they're going to do, and there's basically nothing you can really do to change it.  I'm not trying to force anything onto anything here, just expressing myt opinion and my experiances.  That being said, let me start explaining.

The part about growing a thick skin.  In my life, in both the fandom and in the real world (as I am fat and have recieved a lot of crap from people over the years), it has proven to be the best solution.  Like I said, people are going to act EXACTLY the same way, no matter what you try to do to stop them or anything.

As for the whole trolling and bashing problems, trust me, in my other alias, I manage a large forum, site, and a popular DeviantART account.  I know about trolling and bashing.  In my experiance, there's really no way to stop it, until it's already happened, then the next thing you can do is take preventative measures, such as blocking a particular email address from you're email or such things.  It's one of the drawbacks to being popular, amongst anyone, is that you get both the positive and negative.

As for all the issues concerning art usage, like I said, people are going to do what they're going to do, and you can't stop them until they've already done it.  All you can do is clean up and hope that the more intelligent people (such as the ones that have posted here) respect the requests that you make.  I've had problems with that too, and know exactly how hard it is.

I guess I just don't let things get to me.  Whether that's a flaw or a blessing, I'm still not sure.  But either way, it's always good to see a person taking brave steps into trying to connect with his audiance in a way that will give a better understanding of what's going on behind the scenes.

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does it really matter? at 26 Oct 2006: 15:36

THis is after all a personal view, but if you think an artist should just bow down to your will for no reason than you think so you are a frelling moron.

If on the other hand you appreciate and applaud the dedication and talent of those giving us these works of art than you should continue to do so and help to squelch the rise in "do it cause I said so you lazy bastard" mentality that seems so prevelant(sp?) in these types of boards.

Well done to all who came in support of Ian and the fantastic world he has created

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CJKrythos at 4 Nov 2006: 01:11

well, I am proud that nobody is trolling this thread... or maybe just xenofur is doing a VERY good job at keeping the mongrels out.  ^.^  Either way, I want to say something too.  Ive been a fan of your work for quite some time.  I kept hearing how people expected you to do some M/F work and I found this to be a bit disturbing especially from a fandom that claims to be so open minded.  I'm sorry that people act like that.  I suppose you cant do what I do, and just ignore it, its just simply too much to ignore.  you have to completely shut it out.  like someone else said, you might consider taking time out of the fandom just to get some perspective.  Maybe you might decide to stop doing furry art.  Maybe you might keep your art private like many artists out there.  or maybe you might find something better.

I'm not trying to cause trouble, but I feel I must at least say a few things that I have noticed.  good and bad.  Ian, I respect your work, and I think I might have a bit of insight into why so many people thought you would do M/F work.  A while back when the tail underground first came up, you included a section of your adult material warning that mentions the existence of possible M/F activity going on the flash.  I think that might have led to the assumption by a lot of foolish fanboys that you were more bi than gay(if you were ever bi to begin with).  I suppose now its more obvious for those of us who actually care. However, those out there who are ignorant and care naught for the feelings of others probably still hold onto the belief that artists have no life other than to create art for the entertainment of others.  its a disturbing fact, and one I'm quite sad about.  I see a lot of people get onto fchan and voice a strange sense.  voice their anger because they don't know where the line lies.  The line of where enjoyment and critique are divided.  Its one thing to enjoy work.  Its another thing to give your opinion and how you think it can be improved.  its a completely and unspeakable thing to give a totally inappropriate few of the work and claim the artist simply isn't good enough because he/she cant draw up to their specifications. Some furs seem to think that being a pain and making fun of an artist(especially aspiring artists) is how you "weed out the crappy artists"(yes, Ive actually heard that phrase used).  I come here to view what the fandom has to offer.  here, you see furs who are still working on working on becoming a great artist and also furs who are pretty close to developing a unique and very defining style of their own.  one that will establish them as a reputable artist.  It makes me both excited for them, and afraid for them.  Because with the reputation as a great artist comes the morons who cannot control their lust for more than what they are already given as a gift.  These furry artists will come to see friends turn into hungry monsters, and total strangers pay extra attention to everything they say and do. A level of attention that is simply unnecessary and unwanted. I'm sure much of this sounds very familiar as you probably have experienced it yourself.  It makes me sad knowing there are so many ignorant people out there.  Its people like them that push great artists into stopping their work so that nobody can enjoy it.  Regardless of their appreciation of it.

so in response to the gifts you have given the fandom, the flashes, the art, the work you put into it. free or not.  I would like to thank you for it.  I suppose a simple thank you is not really enough to justify all the times people have negated their duty in respecting the wishes of those artists who bless us every day with a new masterpiece.  But, a thank you is all I can offer, and I can only hope it can show you that your work is not unappreciated. 

Im not trying to convince you to come back and make more art for the enjoyment of the fans who love you so dearly.  Nor am I trying to convince you to do the opposite and shut out those that curse your name.  But instead, to say what I see.  Give my full observation and let you take it from there.  Its your life.  Its your art.  Its your flashes.  Your work.  You have the choice of what you want to do with it.  There is no right choice, only what your heart tells you.  I wish you luck in your future journeys.

Elrynn "Crimson Jackel" Krythos

PS. yes, I know that was a long comment, but ive always liked his work.  And ive been dwelling on what to say to him if I ever could and I know this to be what id say to any artist in his situation.  I truly wish him well, but I simply cannot stand to see him in such a state as the one certain people have put him in.  I only want him to find something out there that will make him happy. I think with all the work he put into the flash and the other online work out there that has brought us much enjoyment, he at least deserves that much. anyways, ill end it at that.

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FoxStar at 27 Oct 2007: 06:35

I'm bumping this so intrested parties can read. It is unlikely Ian will reply to this thread, so behave or i'll lock it again and troublemakers will be delt with.

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