fchan

as far as i know, the backgrounds he uses are his own. they might be photos, but they are his own photos. also, several of his pics have drawn or 3d-rendered (by him) backgrounds.

i also have the feeling that if wookiee pulled his name from the DNP list and stopped posting here, there would probably be even more wookiee images in the threads.

>>12
  It's not if he pulled his name from the DNP list and stopped posting, it's just the sheer fact that it is the same stuff day in and day out.  Maybe one new image every 6 months, but don't put your money on it.  Same shit, different day. 

>>1

I don't understand why you're bitching about his methods of creating his artwork. Fact of the matter is, the end product comes out pretty goddamn good, in my opinion.

And if he does use a model or something...what artist hasn't? I've known plenty of artists who, upon being unable to fully grasp a pose, used a mirror to get the effect just right. Heaven forbid an artist use the tools available to them.

If you want him to draw something different, why don't you commission him? Can't afford it? Whoops.

I can kinda understand why he'd charge so much. Three reasons: First, he's pretty good. Not the best, but still, pretty good. Second, he's popular. People are going to want his art simply because of the name attatched. It increases the demand. And third? Because he can. *shrugs*

It recently occured to me that the pricing of artists' commissions would, of course, fit in the whole supply/demand thing. Lots of people want his stuff, but obviously, he can't do drawings for everyone, he'd never have time otherwise. So a popular artist would have to restrict the number of commissions they can do. Increasing the price of the commissions also reduces the number of commissions, too. From a cold, marketing possition, it would be ideal to put the price of a commission at or just below the amount that would result in the number of commissions one is able to take.

At least, that's the purely supply/demand marketing thinking.

>>18  Now in regards to the whole supply/demand thing:

My good friend, whom shall remain nameless, has her prices relatively steep for a reason:  she doesn't like doing commissions, mainly because she's a perfectionist and usually ends up doing them over 4 or five times before she's satisfied.  She might charge $70 for a clean piece, simply because she'll spend in excess of 10 hours on that single piece.  When it comes to adult art, she does it for herself, and if someone wants a commission from her than is adult-oriented, the price skyrockets for the sole fact that she does not want to do one for someone, unless they REALLY want it.  Also, double the time put into it.

>>19  Different opinon?  I'm just bringing light out on the most "loved" artist on this board.  Excuse me for showing people that he isn't cracked up to be. 

Also, as others have shown, I'm not the only one who feels the same way.  I'm just speaking out for those that won't.

"My good friend, whom shall remain nameless, has her prices relatively steep for a reason:  she doesn't like doing commissions, mainly because she's a perfectionist and usually ends up doing them over 4 or five times before she's satisfied. She might charge $70 for a clean piece, simply because she'll spend in excess of 10 hours on that single piece."

If we're going to get into pointing to other artists as examples  of an arbitrary standard of pricing then I'd like to point to myself.

I charge $0 for commissions. I also give my furry/yiffy art away for free. FREE. So by your argument I could say that your "friend" is a total rip-off and that you're a fool for thinking her work is worth $70 bucks. But that would be total bullshit seriously believe that.

To be honest I think you're "friend" is probably not being paid enough. $70 for 10 hours work? People make more working as cashiers and that doesn't take years of practice and the discipline it takes to learn how to draw decently.

I'm glad Wookie can get $500 bucks from a fandom that's so stingy that it thinks $70 is steep. It's the cheapskate attitude of furs that makes me charge $0 since I don't want any fur to think that I need the little money that comes out of their tight wallets and that I should be grateful to them for the tinsy amount they're willing to pay for a decent drawing.

>>22 Furries pay more for porn and e-penis bragging rights. That's why Wookie can make what he does..but he's also been at it forever. Whereis I know other, better artists who can't make nearly that because they aren't a namebrand.

I can appreciate that my art is not liked by everyone.  Each of us has our own preference in what we perceive is good or bad art.  You obviously hate mine and have issues with me.  That's cool.  You are entitled to your opinion.  I do find it strange that you are going so far out of your way to push your opinion on the rest of fchan, accusing people that like my art of being 'like sheep' just because they don't think like you. 

I have never claimed to be a great artist.  I have never boasted that my art is better than another's.  I openly share my drawing and colouring techniques on my site so people can see how I draw and colour my work.  I have nothing to hide or be ashamed of.  I draw primarily from photos and people posing for me because I am still learning and no one learns anatomy by making it up from their head. They also have to look at and study the real thing first. 

As for the tracing, of the hundreds of drawings I have done over the past 10 years in this fandom, I can count on one hand the number of drawings I used the 'grid replicating' method (drawing a large grid on a photo and the same grid on a larger paper and draw the what you see in the individual squares rather then the entire piece).  If you think most of my art was done by tracing, then I can only take that as a compliment.   

You accuse me of 'charging' $500 for a commission.  For the most part I don't do commissions.  If I am strapped for cash I may sell one on FurBid and in those instances it's not me setting the price but the bidders.

You call me a hypocrite for being on the DNP and still posting my own work here.  I think you should first learn what the word means before you go around accusing others of being one.  A hypocrite is a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.  My belief is that as the creator of my work, I should have the right to decide where such works should be displayed.  I know fchan's policy and have followed them to the letter.  As long as I see people here enjoying my art, I will keep sharing it here, both new art and old.
 
You come here 'anomously' to stand up on your soap box and point an accusing finger like some televangelist claiming to know what's best for everyone.  You have nothing constructive to contribute here at all and your arguments are those of a child crying out for attention.  So my last word on this topic is "grow up!"

>>29  That's cool.  As I stated, I don't mind people not likeing me or my art.  I also wanted to appologize for the last part of my reply.  When I started writing I didn't want to get into any name calling but it got late and I should know better than to write these things when I am tired. 

I know that this thread is clearly over, but I'd like to add one quick note.  I was a *huge* fan of Wookie's art years ago.  In fact, one of the primary reasons for shelling out the air fare and hotel fee for AC'03 was to go see the guy in real life.  When I got to his table in the dealer's den and tried to let him know how much I appreciated his contribution to the furry art community, all he had time for was my money.  In fact, it almost seemed to me that he expected that kind of praise.  What a disappointment.

Now I'm not saying that he should have taken me out for lunch or sat down with me for a nice two-hour conversation, but a person with this amount of power and popularity in any community needs to bear the responsibility of setting a positive example.  Of course the dealer's den was *extraordinarily* busy, but an artist who can't make the time to say "thanks" really perpetuates the ugly image that many people have of artists in general.

Now I recognize that it was my own fault for trying to meet an artist in person, rather than enjoying his art from afar.  I also recognize that AC is the biggest furry convention in the country. (afaik)  What hasn't been (and likely won't be) addressed is the fact that, like all human fans, I have a specific set of emotional needs that must be fulfilled.  I'm not talking about marriage, but the lack of a simple recognition of existence is a real blow to one's self esteem.

Quite clearly, this post is going to get a group of folks telling me to "grow up" or "quit whining", but what for?  Because those people honestly care about my emotional maturity, or because expression of emotion is generally not accepted in USA?  The fact is that everybody has emotions, regardless of whether or not they choose to recognize the fact, and after Wookie's demeanor at AC'03, I can honestly say that mine were hurt.  To this day, I cannot look at Wookie's art without a sense of revulsion from the memory.

It's actually refreshing, though, to see that I'm not alone in no longer feeling that appreciation of Wookie's art.  Here I thought I was just a mean, jaded bitch for disagreeing with so many people!  ^.^

Anyway, as Johnny Storm would say, "Flame on!"

>>34
Hi before I make my point I would like to say that I do feel sorry for you and I do think that wookiee should have made time for fans I know I do, but look at it this way.

As an artist you spend hours working on your art, some artist do it for free cause they like the attention and some do it cause they like the money. Im saying that wookiee probably likes the money but I have noticed a lot of artwork posted by him freely for his fans. You say that Wookiee has a responsibility to his fans why is that exactly shouldnt you have a resposibility to him, after all you have really done nothing for him and he has made a lot art work freely available too you, why do you expect him to do any more for you.
Also Wookiee has a lot of fans and it would be impossible to make all of them happy.
It is a very common problem in the Furry Comunity, We think that artists owe us something, they should do what we want them to do and all there art work should be free. This attitude is selfish and greedy.

Now this isnt really directed at Zephyrr that much because you say that you have payed him for a service and as such you do expect a certain standard but what are you paying for his artwork or his attention.

To artists always look after your fans if only for your self image.
To fans dont expect anything from artists unless you have something to offer them, actually that works in any situation in every day life.

>>34 >>36

This is funny...  I LOVE talking to people at my table at cons.  Unfortunately when I am busy dealing with 5 people wanting to buy prints, socalizing is not always possible.  If I stoped and took time to talk to you alone, I would be pissing off 4 other people.  The dealer room has many slow times and during those times it is best to talk to me.

One thing I pride myself on is not preasuring anyone to buy my art when they are at my table.  I enjoy talking to fans and friends and have had the same problem with people complaining that they tried to buy a print but I was too busy talking to someone and ignored them wanting to buy my art.  In those cases, I was being polight and not wanting to cut someone off in mid sentance to make a sale.

So in any case I cannot win.  People come to my table with expectations and as much as I would love to accomodate everyone I just cannot.  I appreciate what >>36 said about my responsibilities.  I do feel I owe the furry community for their support both monitary and verbally.  That's why my NET posts are of a decent size (usually 750 pixles wide) with no annoying watermarks or "DO NOT POST" text all over it.  I DO respect my fans and do enjoy talking to them at the cons.

If in the future you want to talk to an artist, don't try to do it at a busy time.  Check the dealer room often and look for lag times and approach then.  You will get a much better reception and the artist won't be stressed with having to accomodate everyone at once.

>>38

Imposter!  A real Wookie would tear the OPs arms off, then use them to fix the Milenium Falcon's hyperdrive just before the Star Destroyer closed in!

Yeah, see what I mean?  Exactly the response I expected.  Almost none of you bothered to *read* my post, did you?  Just skimmed it, didn't you? Yup.

Dragon Flame, you're exactly right that I purchased his art, rather than his time.  You're also right that an artist should work to maintain a good reputation.

Joan-Michele, I specifically stated in my post that I was NOT looking for a conversation.  After telling him that I'd been a fan for years, a friendly "thanks for your support" would have been more than enough.

And Wookie.  Oh, dear, dear Wookie.  I do not, will not, and never did want to *talk* to you...or any other artist, for that matter...at con.  Conventions are FAR too hectic to hold any form of discourse except at the most superficial level.  Some call this "networking".  FYI, I went out of my way to approach your table only after it was relatively slow.  Having worked at the busiest Starbucks in downtown Denver for over a year, I know just how frustrating it can be to keep up with 5 people at once, and would never do that to another person.  I don't want your advice, and I don't want your "lose-lose" griping.  In fact, I don't even want a well-deserved apology.  All I want is validation.  Recognize that my complaints are valid, rather than pushing me off to the side with your excuses.

Needless to say, the furry community is desperately removed from the rest of society.  Therefore, as has been observed time and again, standard rules of conduct simply do not apply...so much so that many quite dysfunctional people find solace in a fandom where those social norms they can't quite grasp aren't required.  It's great that so many people use this as an excuse to treat other people poorly.  Really, awesome, it's just as great as those...you know...fundamentalists.  Apparently, you see, if somebody doesn't follow the screwed up "appropriate" behaviors of the furry fandom, they become ostracized...typically through flamey and disconfirmatory posts.  You should be really proud of yourselves.

FYI, though nobody will take this advice, don't waste your time replying directly to me as I just don't have the fortitude to revisit this thread.  Yeah, that's right, you win.  Go smoke a cigar.

>>42
You can't expect everybody to be friendly all of the time. Sometimes it slips the mind. While you want him to recognize that your complaints are valid, maybe you should also try to understand that it might have been an accident.

>>42
"Needless to say, the furry community is desperately removed from the rest of society."

No, it's the same everywhere. Fandoms are just a subset of the greater society they're part of. The behavior you're complaining about is pretty much business as usual.

Sorry, but expecting a 100% cheery and polite response from everyone you meet isn't going to happen, even if they normally are cheery and polite. Expecting "Special Behavior" from people just because they're in the Furry fandom is like expecting you to have been unfailingly polite and  happy with +everybody+ whlie you were working at Starbucks. Unless you were dosing yourself with huge amounts of Prozac, I doubt you managed that trick.

I think what people are so worked up about is the fact that it's actually the ARTIST in those pics with Gadget. Not the artist's fursona, not a cartoon representation of the artist, but the real Ray Jones himself. It's the equivalent of a Mary Sue self-insertion fanfic, cranked up a few degrees. Yes, I find it creepy. But considering the mods are all apparently in this guy's favor, it's not worth getting banned to say so.

>>48

lol wrong thread

>>49

See above