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Herms and gender queerness

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at 22 May 2007: 08:31

Wow I can't believe I'm posting here. I usually just browse the image boards or post a few items... anyway!

A recent thought came to mind: Do many/most folks that role play or identify as herm characters or even simply enjoy role playing with herm characters tend to be gender queer in one form or another, whether that be pansexuality, intersexuality or the like.

I know not ALL that play or are herms are necessarily gender queer, and not all gender queer folks necessarily like herms. But I'm just wondering if it's in the majority. So looking for comments from those who like herms!

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stevefarfan at 22 May 2007: 08:45

if a herm likes another herm, is shi straight or gay?

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at 22 May 2007: 11:18

>>2

Both.

And to the OP: Any and all combinations exist. This is teh intarwebs afterall. Perfectly straight guys are known to love furry cawk. So anything can happen.

But as a general rule, more furrys seem to be gay than straight. It's to do with tolerence etc. (As in, furry has absolutely no taboos it seems.)

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Raven//Puck at 22 May 2007: 12:29

>>3

I thought it had more to do with guys being easy and less picky (i.e. can't get a good woman, take what you can get). :P

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at 22 May 2007: 14:33

>>4
Trying to figure out the 'why' to any degree of certainty is like trying to trace back the roots of sexuality in general, period.  It's not likely to happen, as the large number of factors involved are all fairly complex/ambiguous and would vary tremendously from person to person.  

Though the psych industry does like pretending it's all very cut and dry, within very specific parameters of variable probability, except when it's not.  Science is dead, long live science. 

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Raven//Puck at 22 May 2007: 15:27

>>5

I was being more facetious than anything. Though, I was half serious in the respect that I think the "tolerance" argument is a joke. There's a million and one reasons one may engage in homosexual behavior, but I seriously doubt it has anything to do with the furry fandom being "more tolerant" (and more tolerant than what, anyway? Amish people? If so, then sure. >.>)

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at 22 May 2007: 21:19

>>6

Well yeah, no matter what your view, furries are most likely the most tolerant subculture out there. Look at all the crap in /ah/. You might not like it but nobody complains much, y'know? And when someone does the "Boooo small minded" argument creeps out.

So to say that tolerance has nothing to do with it Monsieur Raven, is quite rash. I tend to think the tolerance attracts more than creates homosexuality; in that way gay people come here and find that is more readily accepted than elsewhere. And if they happen to have any other kinks it is more than likely catered for nicely somewhere.

Tl;dr- STFU Raven, it has to do with tolerance. :P

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at 22 May 2007: 23:01

Tolerance? The furry fandom has a long history of INTOLERANCE! Years ago "lifestylers" formed alt.lifestyle.furry because they were not welcome on alt.fan.furry... Then the "Burned Furs" movement opposed furry lifestyle and gay and fetish-oriented furry art through internet debate and boycott... Then VCL, and more recently FurAffinity, members have generated lively opposition to the allowance of cub-art on those sites. The furry fandom has opposed lifestylers, gays, and hardcore-fetishists; each group has had to force their way into the "fandom". Why do you think furries are known for drama? Because we fight amongst ourselves so much!

The anime fandom actually has a better history of tolerance than the furry fandom! They have all sorts of extreme fetishes: yaoi, futa, loli, shota, guru... and the gay and pedo fans have achieved a level of acceptance within the anime fandom with less conflict and drama than similiar groups went through within the furry fandom. I've been to anime conventions with dedicated yaoi programming tracks, men cosplaying in drag, etc, and yet there's less friction than at furry conventions where I've seen and heard people making fun of the fursuiters, name-calling the baby-furs, etc.

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Raven//Puck at 22 May 2007: 23:52

>>8

See >>9. That was exactly what I meant. So I suggest removing those rose tinted glasses, as they seem to be obscuring your vision just a little bit. :P

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Ayukawa#S44GopK3.. at 23 May 2007: 00:42

As a long standing member of both fandoms. Actually from before there were even fandoms, Anime & Furry, I am forced to agree with >>9 as I have seen much of this firsthand.

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at 23 May 2007: 03:33

>>11 The anime fans don't really have a ton more tolerance, they just are better at ignoring the various subsects that they don't care for and the subsects are greatful to be left alone. They don't demand space in the dealers halls at cons, they don't demand more of the spotlight.

>>8 Like Raven said, take off them glasses there boy. Furrys are some of the lest intolerance minded people I know and even then, they aren't enough because it's the open door policy that resulted in the rise of the babyfurs, the ageplayers, etc when if they had treated them like the anime fans had to start, their numbers wouldn't be so large as to cause drama every few months on the scale of a 9.5 earthquake.

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at 23 May 2007: 03:35

>>12 Er, least tolance minded people, I mean.

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at 23 May 2007: 05:34

>>12
Tolerance is exactly what you just said though. Ignoring the actions of others instead of actively fighting them. To be tolerant you don't have to accept a damn thing. I'm tolerant of a lot of sick crap but I am just choosing to ignore and avoid conflict, I sure as hell am not accepting it as right or moral.

>>1
When I role-play it's all about straight up lust. I don't think my spirit or soul is a herm. I don't think i'm a woman born into a man's body or any other such nonsense. I'm horny so I role-play for the express purpose of acting out my urges and it just so happens I got bored of straight sex so now I do the most ridiculous stuff possible in order to get off. It's all lust and I think anyone saying fetish is anything but lust is full of crap. Of course they are entitled to their own opinions on the matter but I believe lust is an instinct born into all life in order to spark the act of procreation. It's not some deep spiritual thing despite even though that's what a lot of people want to think in order to feel more righteous about it.

So to answer your question more clearly, i'm straight and horny. I don't have gender identity problems and I don't classify myself under any of those various 'sexualities' you listed.

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at 23 May 2007: 06:20

The way I see it - the anime/manga fandom has no issues with laughing at itself. See Welcome to NHK, Genshiken, Otaku no Video, and all that. ...but try and make fun of furries (even if you're part of the fandom), and you're skinned alive. :P

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at 23 May 2007: 07:15

>>15

...and then you laugh even harder. :P

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at 23 May 2007: 08:12

I'm going to go ahead and ignore all the above stuff as it was tl;dr and keep my tinted glasses on. It still has some to do with tolerance. At least in part. Anyway this has gone a little OT.

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at 23 May 2007: 11:20

>>17
If you aren't going to read then don't even bother being in the discussion. I read the entire thread in a few minutes, there was nothing really too long to read.

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Nova#bt1iXwdL.w at 23 May 2007: 20:35

I am a trans male. Both my fursonas are not what my biological gender was, and I saw the development of my fursona go from being female with the ability to change into anything it wanted (Caileah) to straight up herm (Nexus) to a male based herm (Slipstreme, which is also my wereside). The previous two characters were discarded to RP characters only. Gorath, a male, showed up out of the blue in the form of an evil character I kept around for RP that grew on me. All of this, over the last about 5 years occurred while I started actively questioning my gender rather than just dealing with the fact I have a pussy and tits.

However I believe the majority of herms (due to the predominance of nearly winger-ized artwork dealing with them and the lack of RL herm furs) deal solely with someone's fetish rather than their gender identity, intersex organs or other gender queerness.

However this is not to say they don't exist as I have heard of others, who like myself, are gender queer. I have also seen someone who's fursona is a pre-op FTM (female to male) wolf, however I believe most transsexuals who are truly determined on their gender are depicted as they feel they are (ie: the FTMs are male and the MTFs are female) not somewhere in between.

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at 25 May 2007: 22:12

Ok I'm the OP and I'd prefer the topic get back on track now ;)

I am just simply wondering if there is any correlation between the _majority_ of players with herm characters and gender queerness.

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at 27 May 2007: 14:29

I play a herm character.  I'm a guy that started off playing a gender switching character (ala Ranma 1/2 style), then just stuck with playing a female character.  I've since moved to playing a herm character as I've become more comfortable with my masculinity and now it's a matter of sometimes I feel like a woman, sometimes I feel like a guy, sometimes I feel somewhere inbetween.  If I'm ever feeling anything gender particular at all, anyway.

I'm kinda stuck being a guy in RL, so I do the other parts online.  Yeah, I could make an effort to change that, but most such changes are not very pleasant, aren't necessarily thorough enough, and anything short of cross dressing isn't reversible.

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