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Humor

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M'aiq the Liar at 23 Jun 2007: 22:21

I was sitting here, alternating between writing a letter to a friend of mine, checking my email, and taking in the eyecandy available here, and I saw that little banner with that fox - Pyong, I think he's called - and I can't stop laughing.  Maybe it's the Vicodin... but anyways, I got to thinking - is humor a purely human concept? Can dogs, cats, goats, etc etc conceive of and appreciate humor? There have been times where I was working on my mom's farm, and one of her goats would steal something from my pocket, and then when I tried to get it back, they would run around the pen waving it in the air as if to taunt me, and I couldn't help but wonder if humor, pranks and jokes are really as exclusive to "higher beings" like us as we would like to believe?

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at 24 Jun 2007: 04:25

Lots of animals play. I'm not sure "humor" is the right term for it, though.

But then, this is largely a group that glorifies animals and their behavior, so I'm sure someone will disagree.

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at 24 Jun 2007: 04:38

>>1
You're probably just over-anthropomorphizing them.
I know that some animals seem to understand the concept of "fun" (Corvids, apes, etc.), but humor is most likely limited to fully sapient species.

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M'aiq the Liar at 24 Jun 2007: 09:42

I'm well aware that there are MANY concepts animals simply cannot grasp - abstract stuff like mathematics, for example.  But I was wondering how abstract the concept of humor actually is.  Humor can be VERY simple at times, very basic physical comedy and such.  I realize that simplicity is not necessarily enough, but...

BTW, re: the concept of "fun", I'm fairly sure that many critters in domestication can grasp that concept - put a sturdy old crate or something similar in a pen with a bunch of goat kids, and watch what ensues - the crate is fairly meaningless, it has no food, offers no shelter, it is simply a high point to compete for the control of.  And they will sometimes relinquish "control" voluntarily, jumping off the crate with extravagant kicking and twisting jumps reminiscent of a young human child cavorting around a playground.  As for creatures in the wild, you can see mock-fights and such amongst felids/pantherines, canids/lupines, and many others.  While this "play" serves a purpose in the wild (exercise, "training" of a sort) and possibly the same exercise/training purpose applies to the domesticated animals as well (such as the aforementioned goat kids), does a human child's desire to play, to run about, to manipulate objects not also smack of exercise/training? Developing motor skills, developing muscle and promoting fitness... this makes me believe that "fun" is an arbitrary label, applied to what WE do in a vain attempt to differentiate us from "lower" orders in the animal kingdom.  Thusly, one might say, "Well, okay, maybe 'fun' isn't a human concept, merely the word.  What does this have to do with humor?" Well, it is also important to exercise and hone the mind (regardless of how simple that mind may seem to be).  It would seem that instinct gives the animal kingdom a leg up on us, in that the innate knowledge it imparts reduces the need for actual mindful thought.  But when you put a mouse in a maze, and over time he figures out how to get from the start location to the cheese faster and faster, is he not learning? To learn requires thought, it requires the ability to process the information you gather and store it in your mind.  Dogs learning to respond to various verbal/physical cues demonstrates learning as well.  Now, I'm not sure whether humor is something one can conceive of BECAUSE of intelligence, or whether humor promotes the development of an intelligent mind, or both, but I see behavior demonstrated in various animals in domestication and to a limited extent in the wild that I can't help but wonder.

Yeah, it's a wall of text.  But it's a subject I feel merits lengthy discussion and explanation, because debate and the exchange of opinions and ideas can be fun and enlightening.

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Axle at 24 Jun 2007: 13:40

Apes appear to be quite amused by pratfalls and slapstick comedy, especially chimps.
At least, they sure as hell look like they're pointing and laughing.

And they sure as hell keep doing it, too.

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at 24 Jun 2007: 23:04

Humor implies emotion, and only humans and the higher apes are actually capable of displaying/recognizing emotion.


So, no, cats and dogs don't think it's fun when you play with them. They're not happy when you take them for walks. It just appears that way because of behvaior that we think of as "playful" or "happy" has an entirely different meaning to them and to people who know better.

Every thing with a limbic system(read: animals above a fish) can recognize basic emotions, like fear. But being "happy" or "sad" is purely a function of the great apes.

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at 24 Jun 2007: 23:54

>>6
The evidence seems to suggest you're wrong, aka: 'talking out your ass'. 

A simple web search using 'animal emotions' brings up scores of sites that suggest quite the opposite - and cite scientific studies that support that suggestion, at least regarding such things as 'happy and sad' Humour is a bit more complex, and is surely up for debate. 

So for a guy that 'knows better' than the scientific community at large, please enlighten us with your evidence that dogs and cats (and rats, etc.) don't experience emotions, don't really enjoy what they (observationally speaking) certainly appear to enjoy, and indeed don't get depressed, stop eating, and maul small children? 

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at 25 Jun 2007: 00:01

I have to disagree with 6. I've had plenty of pet cats in my day, and man... They play, lol. And where there is play there is humor.

Granted they do not have sophisticated forms of said humor and play. But I do think it is semi-universal in the animal kingdom. That is to say it develops after a certain point of evolution. Not just apes though.

Certain things hint at it. An example: I've seen cats and dogs both do the run off with something you need bit. I think it's because they both see and smell, that you have paid alot of attention to said thing. And they run off with it in an effort to get your attention.

It's a sign of personality and character. I wouldn't love having cats around as much if they were so bleak. Lol, man... Some of the stories I, or any other pet owner could tell you... It's great.

Lots of animals are alot like humans. They are not robots, they want attention and humor just like us. They are just a bit more primitive. After a while though, you get a bond going with your pets. They can communicate and learn, just not the same way.

My cats all have signs that they do to tell me when they want w/e. They get angry, sad, happy, bored, and all that too though.

If only they were more intelligent. But they are on their way. It may be millions of years until then, but we have the fandom to tie us over until then.

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at 25 Jun 2007: 02:51

>>8
I hope you don't mix up fun and humor in your post. Humor is mostly defined as the way to handle something unrealistic. If there is no specific reason why something happens around you (and it is not frightening), you will laugh about it to handle the situation. Worst example for this: little boys laughing about talking sex in school. This seems like a no-do for them in front of adults and teachers do it in a "funny" way.

In terms of animals, I guess they could handle humor if they have a good sense of their environment to distinguish realistic/unrealistic behaviour. Apes can do that, I am sure.

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at 25 Jun 2007: 07:03

There are still many isolated human tribes who find the concept of humor completely alien.

Humor is not an emotion, it's art. It's not inborn, it's something that had to be invented. Like the cave paintings, our ancestors probably had some appreciation of crude humor - so do the apes, I suppose.

However, most animals are not capable of understanding such concept - and certainly not capable of inventing humor and using it. That'd require sapience.

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M'aiq the Liar at 25 Jun 2007: 11:40

>>10 "Humor is not an emotion, it's art."

True.  Mirth is an emotion, but not humor... Side note: Humor is an art, and art is considered an alien concept to (most) animals... what do you make of those "painting elephants" that you hear about in little fluff news stories? Are they simply trained to "paint" by their trainers? Do the pachyderms actually have an appreciation for art? I remember seeing one of these fluff stories, and the trainer was telling the reporter that a certain painting was of a fire engine, as if he could know what was going through the creature's mind as it played with the brush.  I mean, I seriously doubt the elephant knows what the hell a fire engine is... The same could also apply to some of the paintings done by various members of the ape family, which you also might hear about in fluff stories (usually these paintings are auctioned off to raise funds for various associations who have something to do with conservation of apes in the wild).  Do they think it's art? Do they just like waving the brush around and making a mess?

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at 25 Jun 2007: 13:14

>>11

Careful. You'll anger Bip.

http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive/PBF194-Bip.jpg

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M'aiq the Liar at 25 Jun 2007: 16:25

>>12
O.o

ME: "Hey orangutan.  Your art sucks.  But here's an orange!"

ORANGUTAN: <3 *runs off to eat the orange*

14ReportAborn!
Aborn! at 26 Jun 2007: 08:58

Aborn!

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M'aiq the Liar at 26 Jun 2007: 09:17

You must be kidding me.  Video game RMTs in my FChan?!

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at 27 Jun 2007: 01:08

>>12

Haha, the funniest part of that strip is the spelling of "orangutang"!

If this gibbon isn't having a laugh, what is the point in taunting the tigers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AZn5nWIj_g&mode=related&search=

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Mr Swede at 27 Jun 2007: 06:31

>>16
"Dammit, tigers, you ate my mother! Now I'm gonna pull your ears constently and then run away, and you won't get any sleep for the next two or three years! MoHAHAhaaa..."

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