fchan

discussion

Several changes and clarifications in policy

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1Report(capped)
Xenofur at 5 Mar 2008: 18:44

Opening note:
"At the discretion of our moderators" means that they will ask the other moderators in IRC when they have any doubts to reach a concensus.
"Base boards" means /f, /m, /s, and /h.
These changes will not take effect immediately, but will be made in a few days in case grave oversights are spotted.

1. Cub art

Due to its host having increasing concerns about such art and additionally due to several federal states of the USA having passed as-of-yet unappealed legislations that forbid such art, Fchan sees itself forced to act to protect both users and the site itself by banning cub art.

As of today, all clear and definite depictions of childs or child-like characters outside of /c are forbidden. Unclear specimen will be treated at the discretion of our moderators, with a trend towards deletion, with the exception of /ah and /toon where the trend will lean towards keeping.

To make this a bit more clear, some examples:
Images like the one depicting a young bear girl sucking a rather huge penis (done in a hardiman style), would be deleted on sight, even on /ah or /toon.
However images any depiction of Tails the Fox, would be perfectly fine in /toon. Unless of course he is wearing a pacifier.

2. "Anatomic correctness"

Furries on fchan in the base boards are expected to conform to the basic humanoid form factor in overall anatomy. Deviations from it are judged based on how likely they are to gross someone out and how much of a furry staple they are, with the decision being at the discretion of our moderators.

This means in general that multi-anything will stay in /a, while furry "staples" like taurs or knots would be allowed to stay in the base boards.

3. Light bondage

In order to even out distribution a bit and to avoid some unnecessary deletions, light bondage will now be allowed in the base boards. Decision on what constitutes light bondage will be made case-by-case at the discretion of our moderators.

4. Changes in /h

Due to the herm board being less of an actual gender, but more a fetish board, we have decided to be less stringent there, which should also serve to reinvigorate it a bit. That means that specific fetishes like bondage, hyper, feet, etc. will generally be allowed more often, unless they get too gross. Decisions will be made case-by-case and at discretion of our moderators here as well.

An additional note though: Due to the contentious nature of some of the content in /h, we have decided to be more stringent on thread coherence. This means that if someone wishes to make a "normal only" thread or a "hyper only" thread, off-topic posts will be deleted. If you do not like these materials, keep in mind that you can always hide threads. To this end i have now activated the thread collapsing feature by default.

5. Images with mixed gender combinations

Images that contain more than only females, only males or one female plus one male will now be allowed in /s and will no longer need to be posted in /a. This is due to the fact that "Straight" was not meant to be strictly church-defined straight, but was meant to denote that in here combinations of both penis and vagina can be found.

We will monitor /s for a while and may, if things don't work out nicely, treat thread coherence similarly as in /h.

6. Internet Explorer & Viruses/Trojans

Some of you may as of late have noticed an increased influx of complaints regarding trojans or viruses in advertisements or specific boards/threads in general.

The staff of Fchan wants to assure every user that there are no actual trojans or viruses present anywhere on the boards. We use the website daily and quite intensely while monitoring it and resolving issues. As such we would not want to subject ourselves to any danger, which is why we regularly check Fchan for its safety.

However, due to its very nature, regarding insecurity and buggy interpretation of web standards, we refuse to test/use/support Internet Explorer. As such, any users of it are completely on their own peril on this site and will be completely disregarded until they have started using an alternative browser. An incomplete list of such is: Opera, Firefox, Safari, K-Meleon, Konqueror, Flock, Netscape, Lolifox and lynx.

Additionally we have discovered that many of the so-called viruses that some of the antivirus packages of our users complain about are not simply viruses, but merely catch-all identifiers for encrypted javascripts, which are used by more than a few advertising companies. In short: These are false alarms by sub-par antivirus solutions. Recommended packages are AVG or Avast.

From this follows the next decision: Any complaint about a trojan or virus that is not accompanied by a screenshot showing the exact page it happened on and the message of the antivirus package on where it discovered the virus and what type the virus is will from now on be deleted. Repeat posters will be banned.

7. Interstitial advertisements

Some advertisements on Fchan use the technique of so-called interstitials. These are fullscreen advertisements that should pop up once or twice a day, given that the browser has cookies enabled and that the networking software on the machine does not delete cookies. These advertisements all are accompanied by a button that either says "skip this ad" or "continue to site" or similar. Click these.

Any complaints about interstitial ads that are not accompanied by a screenshot of the offending ad will be deleted and repeat posters banned.

2Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 00:16

>> 1.1 *sigh*, too bad.  At least FA still has it's backbone.

>> 1.4 yay

>> 1.6 IE FTW.

3Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 03:45

>>1
Good call on the  cub-art.  I like some (highly idealized) cub art, and have been known to draw it occasionally, but I firmly believe banning it from the more popular areas of the fandom can only do good. 

Furries really need to learn to keep their dirtier little secrets a bit more secret, and far less in-your-face-bitch than they seem to do lately, and if they can't handle that, then the folks in control should do it for them.

I certainly don't envy the amount of flak you're likely to catch over it tho'. 

But does #5 mean I'll have to go to /s/ to get my bisexual porn fix? 

4Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 05:29

Well, so much for my attendence.  I only came here for the cub art, and if it's not here, then nither am I.  Another case of "my fetish is not as bad as your fetish" bias.  So much for fchan...

5Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 05:33

>>3
This has nothing to do with keeping secrets, and everything to do with law.

Note Rule 1:
Post only furry art and do not post illegal content.
...
If you post anything illegal under US or UK law, you will be banned, and your details will be forwarded to the relevant authorities.

Hence it is not even a debatable issue. It's illegal, it's not allowed here, period.

And yes, it means /s is now for generic bisexual imagery as well. (which imo is more logical)

6Report (sage)
at 6 Mar 2008: 05:35

>>4
Non-debatable. I hope you're a) in a state/country where such legislation doesn't exist yet, and b) the sites you visit doesn't service said states/countries.

7Report (sage)
at 6 Mar 2008: 05:43

Also, may want to update the board description for /ah, and put a notice on all boards affected. So that people do not create new cub threads to replace deleted ones, and etc.

8Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 07:00

Wait, is cub art completely banned?  Or just restricted to /ah/?  Because that's how I thought it always was..

9Report (sage)
at 6 Mar 2008: 07:37

>>8
Cub art banned. What constitutes as cub art is less strict in /ah and toon.

10ReportDeleted!
Deleted! at 6 Mar 2008: 07:42

Deleted!
Keep it constructive and refrain from pointless trolling like this.

11Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 07:43

I support these new rules, it also shows that the administration finally begin to draw clear lines. I guess it'll be better for the  admin, the site, the users and everyone linked with fchan as well. Good job! :)

12Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 07:51

>>10

You know that no one cares about how much you cub lovers will whine about these rules? Just leave and go elsewhere. If fchan is so second-class and unimportant to you, why do you bother and rant about it now? The new rule was based on legal issues and you can't do anything about it, period. But I forgot that no real furry could just accept something and leave quietly, they gotta cry and throw their plushies at the one to blame for the recent incidents of fursecution or something. We should oben a "Fchan's new rules drama thread" where everyone can stomp his foot and spit on fchan and pull it's hair (just imagine fchan has hair and really, really cares about your raging furry anger) and stuff.

13Report(capped)
Xenofur at 6 Mar 2008: 08:24

> backbone
FA has serious financial backing and can take a few frivolous lawsuits and additionally it has no actual badwill amongst those most likely to use, i.e. artists. Oranges and apples. ;)

> But does #5 mean I'll have to go to /s/ to get my bisexual porn fix?
Yes, any mix of male and female characters will belong there.

> Well, so much for my attendence.
I am aware that we will lose at least a part of the userbase. I am however certain that you too will find places where you can find what you're looking for.

> Another case of "my fetish is not as bad as your fetish" bias.
I have always had the opinion that i don't like underage porn on fchan. In the past i even contemplated relegating them to renchan, but that sadly died. Until now i however strongly opposed forbidding it.
Additionally, as soon as the US government repeals the relevant laws, i will reinstate it, even though i doubt that will ever come to pass.
In the end it's a "I am not willing to risk my ass for your boner." bias.

> Also, may want to update the board description for /ah, and put a notice on all boards affected.
Will happen once this takes full effect. One of our mods jumped the gun a bit due to my mistake. I didn't have the "not immediately in effect" line in the original draft and forgot to tell the mods that i added it.

> Cub art banned. What constitutes as cub art is less strict in /ah and toon.
Exactly that. Rule-relevant is only that cub porn is banned. The rest is merely a clarification on how the mods will handle fringe cases so you know what to expect in the future.

>>12
Please don't feed the trolls.

14Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 12:21

Re: 1 -- Noooooooo! D:

15Report
LilShock at 6 Mar 2008: 13:48

I really don't understand why it's only selected cub art that is banned. Tails is okay?? Isn't he 8 years old? It really should be all or none. If you want to say it's legal reasoning I doubt a court of law would consider Tails A-OK just because it's Sonic.

16Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 15:25

I really can't understand how cub is banned on the basis of legality and things like that..I mean, wouldn't that constitute the /ah/ threads like rape, mutilation, murder, etc bannable too because they fall under real life illegalities?

17Report (sage)
at 6 Mar 2008: 15:28

>>16
iirc imagery depicting child porn is illegal, imagery depicting rape, etc isn't. If you've questions, ask state legislation, not us.

18Report (sage)
at 6 Mar 2008: 15:30

>>15
Actually, it's more likely to be considered acceptable since it is distinctively a fictional character, as opposed to others which could be argued as children with animal charactistics.

19Report(capped)
Xenofur at 6 Mar 2008: 15:44

> Tails is okay?? Isn't he 8 years old?
For the record: I hate sonic porn more than anything else.
To explain: The law states that depictions of minors are forbidden. Important is in this case ONLY the visual appearance and in no way whatsoever any additional fiction surrounding the character. Luckily for those who like it, most sonic characters are drawn in a rather ambiguous way and thus deny any attempt to clearly characterize them as minors. Such art is allowed and the use of Tails was only a convenient example.

>>16
The distribution of depictions of such is not forbidden.

20Report
LilShock at 6 Mar 2008: 15:57

>>18
Well all furry art is fictional characters. Tails for example is established as a child in his show/game. If it's just a cub character that can say they have an illness, dwarfism, small species, ect. 

>>17
Fedrally cub/loli/shota is covered by the first amendment so long as no real minors get hurt. If you want to get into the legalities of cub/loli/shota and IF it was outlawed in some states, the only one that would matter is the actual state the server is in as to how Fchan can be shut down and sued. I didn't ask a legal question anyway, I was asking about a double standard. I know the difference between truly illegal and what is more a bandwagon type situation *clears throat*

21Report
LilShock at 6 Mar 2008: 16:08

>>19
Identifiable minors. If there's a link to a real child than said image is illegal. But this is your site, you can pick and choose what you want and don't. I just get annoyed with double standards , the ol' bandwagon, and 'legal' issues. If you want to follow all the laws perfectly, /m/ will have to go. Sodomy is still illegal in many states. I'm not trying to argue, like I said, the double standard threw me a bit.

22Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 16:10

Do you mind siting the aforementioned legislations that make cub art a federal crime? I have a lot of trouble believing it.

23Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 16:12

>>21
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1466A.html
Look it up for yourself, the "identifiable" part is no longer in there. Also, sodomy is not addressed in any federal law.

24Report
Softpaw at 6 Mar 2008: 16:13

>>22

I second this request, since as far as I know, the only laws that apply are the federal laws of the country the server is in, and the state laws of the server location and the user (and in the case of the latter, the liability is on the user).

25Report
LilShock at 6 Mar 2008: 16:41

>>23
While I wish you'd give me a real link to the law, not a law school's site with no statement about where it's located or where the law would apply. I'd like to point out that is says any art that  "(1-B) Is obscene" That would be all art here excluding /c/. "(2-B) Lacks serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value" That would be all porn. And no, sodomy is not addressed federally, it's state by state and in many states it is illegal. Furthermore, the literature pertains to human depictions, not animal depictions if you want to get technical.

26Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 16:45

>>25

You may notice he said "outside of /c", which means clean depictions of minors are allowed.

27Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 16:48

>>25
I agree with the remark about human vs animal. The university page cited above indicates that depictions of minors (whether they exist or not) doing naughty things is a federal offense. But a minor isn't an animal. My cat is not a minor.

Furries are animals. Humanoid, but certainly not human. They are exempt from this law. Perhaps if they could be mistaken for human (like a boy with ears and a tail and no other furry traits) could APPEAR to be a minor, which falls under this law. But not most furry art.

Furthermore there are lots of babyfur pics that are not sexually explicit or obscene, and these do not fall under the law in any way, because the law forbids obscene or sexually explicit images. If babyfur pics were a federal offense, the FBI would be sending teachers to jail and taking down those little alphabet posters from classroom walls because "W" had a baby walrus on it.

28Report
LilShock at 6 Mar 2008: 16:49

>>26
I excluded /c/ as well. We're talking about /ah/ and /toon/ here (I believe).

29Report
at 6 Mar 2008: 16:50

>>25 I live in a state where bestiality is legal, but those who are caught tend to go to prison for statutory rape.

Just an FYI for you.

30Report
Softpaw at 6 Mar 2008: 16:54

>>28

Well, does that mean that Fchan will now allow clean babyfur art in /c/?  Because the majority of the content in things like diaper threads and most babyfur threads has been /c/ material, but Fchan has traditionally said that all babyfur art had to go in /ah/ regardless of how innocent it is.

31Report
Lilshock at 6 Mar 2008: 16:57

>>29
what if it's an old dog at 18 years?

32Report (sage)
at 6 Mar 2008: 20:07

>>31
Statutory rape has more to do with legal ability to consent, rather than any actual capacity to do so. 

You go to jail for having sex with 16 year old not because anyone actually believes the average 16 year old would turn down an offer for sex with a reasonably attractive partner, but because by law they're not allowed to consent and you (as the hypothetical adult in the scenario) should know that and act accordingly.  

Same deal applies to animals.  Sure, they might not say no, but by law, even if they say yes, you should say no, being the responsible party who can do complex theoretical thinking. 

33Report
LilShock at 6 Mar 2008: 20:49

>>32
It was a joke.

34Report
Jere at 6 Mar 2008: 22:00

>>21
if you want to follow all the laws perfectly, almost all the pornography here would have to go, since sodomy is referred to as any act that is not missionary sex between a male & female.

35Report (sage)
at 7 Mar 2008: 03:34

>>33
I knew that, but I had sex with it anyway. 

36Report
doomer. at 7 Mar 2008: 03:39

>>1
OMGCUB ART IS GOING TO BE ILLEGAL D:
er, xenofur, there's been no votes about it and it wont happen since fictionnal characters arent supposed to have an age.

common sense, anyone?

*goes back to 4chon/lulz*

37Report(capped)
Xenofur at 7 Mar 2008: 06:08

>>25
I'd like to link to a *.gov site too, but apparently the american government hasn't arrived in the 21st century yet.

Anyhow, to address your points: 1466A(a)(1)(A) and 1466A(a)(1)(B) are linked by an "AND", that means both have to be given, thus not all art on this site is covered.

>>27
The law does only state "minor", nothing else at all, and makes no definition on the meaning of that. That means whether a depicted creature falls under this law is up to the decision of a judge, who would go by "average observer". Given the largely human appearance of most creatures here, due to the inherent anthropoidness; an average observer would indeed judge them to be a minor, when applicable, and not as an animal. Anyhow, not gonna risk this. (Also, i think there was an earlier version of this law that specified human, which was then redacted.)

>>30
Definition:
Babyfur: Adult creature in baby attire.
Cub: Obviously underaged creature.

- Clean cub art can be in /c, unless it concentrates on shitting diapers and/or has sexual undertones. (Moderator discretion.)
- Babyfur art is still allowed if it is made sufficiently clear that it is an adult. (Moderator discretion.) It is in /ah by default due to the inherent scatological factor, but permissible in /a too, if kept clean(er).

38Report
Edis Krad at 7 Mar 2008: 06:13

>>13
>> backbone
>FA has serious financial backing and can take a few frivolous
>lawsuits

Yes, because if FA is known for something, is for the amount of lawsuits they take monthly.

Cubporn has been in FA for ages now and nobody has sued it. The world didn't end. They didn't take their servers and nobody went to jail.

Yes, it's a backbone issue.

Also, I would like you to show proof of the FA's financial backing you mention. If anything, I keep hearing they're always struggling to pay for bandwidth.

39Report
Miw. at 7 Mar 2008: 06:30

>>37
xeno, have you actually read and understood this legal text ? no, you did\'nt.

anyways; i\'m trying to get your logic, for a furry admin; you seem to be really payingattention about the laws and all that, dont you ?

IF someday, some law is voted by the senate; banning all form of violence and sexual acts involving fictional characters, what would you do ?

close fchan or keep it up in the name of freedom of expression/speech ? (even if you could still host the site in Europe, but let\'s say for the moment your fchan is stuck in Jesusland...)

40Report
at 7 Mar 2008: 07:16

>>38 That's because no one had decided to use FA as test cases. If I also remember, cubporn stayed on FA because Dragoneer ended up too gutless to enforce policy that was around when the site first went live. Btw, you took about two days longer to get here then I thought, as this ruling effects your art, of course.


>>39 You need to remember that almost all of the internet is privately owned. Freedom of speech does not apply here, but because of it's size and power, people will swear up and down freedom of speech is a right on the net. If Tenchi (Who owns the server F-chan's on) said he didn't want it because he says so, it would be well within his right.

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