fchan

if you do care to learn the reality of things here http://www.clawcast.com/podcasts/naylorspecial.mp3" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http//www.podtrac./... - Interview starts at 9:30

personally i like jay naylor's  works, they are deep. in a good way, he lets his characters be different from his own ideas

I don't like Naylor because he uses his comic not to entertain, but to really just push his beliefs on people and thinly veil it to look like he's not.

aka http://www.crushyiffdestroy.com/show/bdays

>>7
What that guy said, basically.
I'm only in it for the chicks.

>>6

Naylor's political views are hardly a secret, and there's no subliminal messages in Better Days. Personally I agree with a lot of his views, so I don't care.  If you don't, that's fine, but whoever wrote that page is either a complete moron or just has WAY too much free time.

You'd be hard pressed to find a story that doesn't work the creator's personal viewpoint and agenda into the story somehow.

>>11
It was, essentially.

The society in the city of Rapture in Bioshock was based around Objectivism, and it was a ruined, dying world because of it.

>>3

I thought it started out ok, but after a while (around the time he had the falling out with Matt Sherer) the ideas began to run out. 

at this point, either hes just generating filler in preparation of some epic plot twist, Or he's completly flip flopped and seized loving his work.

I don't know, ask him if hes got a surprise for us (depending on how long hes gonna keep it rolling),

or just wait and see.

>>2

its a dead url

I didn't know most people didn't like JN. Even if he does present his ideas, like >>10 said, everyone does that. I can tell you when ever in any kind of media, book, show, movie, whatever, if a character normally presented as intelligent presents an idea, it's the writers ideas getting into his work. And by idea I mean view on politics, behavior or the like.

>>17

This. Great as he is at drawing asses, this ruins it.

>>19
He puts "a small amount" of his ideas into "a few" of his characters? The only characters that oppose his viewpoints in any way are either designated antagonists or routinely put down for their beliefs, and usually both. In his works, you either agree with Jay or are wrong. It has nothing to do with his conservative views and everything to do with the manner in which he pushes them.

OK... maybe that's not entirely true. I find his apparent notion that people with a cock are never at fault to be very distasteful.

Oh, and by the way, it's "hard to win" a debate with him because he only debates in venues where he has total control and bans anyone who makes a point that he cannot counter.

>>20 Liberal artists do the same damn thing, and are a hell of a lot less subtle about it than he is. People don't like him simply for the fact that he's on the right side of some issues.

>>22
This isn't a conservative vs liberal thing though. It's an atrocious practice regardless of the ideas being presented.

Honestly, if this were about a liberal artist doing the same thing, I'd have the same reaction. Stories are particularly boring when the main character is every time all the time. Flaws make a character more than their strengths and abilities do.

>>25

anoying isnt it when you miss print.

>>27 >>why then make it with anthropomorphic characters which only end up representing human characters?

What else are they supposed to represent? Not real animals, one would expect. Their world is clearly meant to be just like our own, only with animal-headed cartoon people. If he's using the metaphor at all well, the characters' animal identities ought to reflect their personalities.

>>27

Dude you cant really bash the comic until you have read it
 

>>18 >>20

I really don't see what the big deal is.  Obviously if he presents his ideas, he isn't going to have arguments against them.  The point is that "here's what I think, here's why I'm right".  Yes, if overdone this can make for annoying reading, but Better Days doesn't really have all that much of it.

Also, Better Days is the only place I can recall offhand ever reading anything remotely resembling political or social ideologies.  Considering that it's something of a social commentary, that's almost expected.  If you like the way Naylor draws ass, read one of his many porno comics which don't contain any of the commentary. I don't understand how not agreeing with his political ideas means you can't enjoy his porn.

>>32
"...doesn't really have all that much of it"? Are we talking about different comics? Or did you just fail to notice everything that wasn't clearly spelled out as an ideological exposition? (Your comment that Better Days is the only thing you've read with sociopolitical themes strongly suggests the latter.)

As for his porn, he even occasionally feels the need to proselytize there, as well. And sometimes he feels the need to get all "art-y", reducing what might otherwise be hot into an unfappable mess.

The thing is, there are three artistic roles to be played in the creation of a comic: illustrator, writer, and director. Of these aspects, Jay Naylor is skilled in the first, horrible in the second, and probably doesn't even think about the third (few people do). He refuses to acknowledge that these shortcomings exist, which means that any comic he creates his fatally weak in one area and inconsistent-at-best in another. It's pretty much impossible to create works of quality under such conditions, and that's why people don't like his stuff.

>>35 So basically you're forming a strong opinion based on the opinions of others. Try reading it and forming your own opinions. Then you can bash it and the ideas you're presenting will actually be yours, and you'll actually have reasons for thinking that way. I tend to find that other peoples opinions of things very rarely match my own. Hell, some people even think that Dane Cook is funny...

>>37
..."fail to see how it's NOT my own opinion"

Man, every time I write something I miss ONE key word and only notice it past the point of no return. :/

>>39
Saying that you don't agree with my opinions is a more proper way to put it.

Saying that I'm wrong is your opinion, which is based on the opinions I presented here, which falls back into the argument you just presented.

Opinions aren't based on logic alone. They're also based on emotions and ethics, so saying that I broke logical rules with my opinions doesn't hold a lot of water. And besides, you don't know where I got my "biased information" from, because you don't know for certain what I've actually read, seen, and experienced about the comic Better Days. That article I linked earlier is one, but I've also read others, heard about it from others, been linked to examples of things I dislike about it, and things that I do like about it.

I honestly wish somebody would say what it seems like they're trying to say. "You should at least read the comic, you might actually like it." Because I'll be honest, this statement is true. My opinion -might- change if I actually sit down and read the comic.

I wouldn't have spoken up against that, I was speaking up against the notion that I have to read the comic to actually bash it, which just isn't true.