at 31 Mar 2009: 23:02
you are absolutely right. my apologies
but honestly you might like it if you maybe read one, its your call.
Sen at 1 Apr 2009: 06:31
No apologies necessary, it's all part of the argument process. Maybe I will take a gander.
at 1 Apr 2009: 06:42
i didnt think id like it at first, but i think it is because i born around the same time (the early 70's) i can relate and many people i was close to were in the army during the desert storm era etc.
at 2 Apr 2009: 00:28
"Too much politics, ideology and other shit everybody has enough of it IRL."
-And you haven't had enough of the Furry Fandom?
"Brother-sister incest (for that redneck felling - though I really cant tell, didn't read it, just heard about it)"
-Its was only mentioned twice. What a bummer
"Boring, main character and plot (father died in Vietnam, mother was a slut, sister was retarded - give me a break I can find plenty of that (again) IRL.) - don't get me wrong i don't have anything against realistic plots that want to represent reality but why make then make it whit anthropomorphic characters which only end up representing human characters."
-I had no idea Lucy was retarded, just naive in that cute, innocent sort of way.
"Other than that I guess its OK, and Jay Nayor said he will end it soon and start another webcomic."
Another one? Oh dear! :(
It would be better if he finish the other projects first
like new worlds or that non furry comic that.
at 2 Apr 2009: 03:32
..was put on hold indefinetlyl.
Baidn at 4 Apr 2009: 04:19
I personally like the comic, well written coming of age story that shifts well between the two main characters. As far as the incest is concerned, its handled tastefully and isnt that hard to imagine,its not like there are 8 hardcore pages of the twins getting it on. I personally think the first incest scene at least is neccessary, in my mind the brother seems to have a feeling of agape toward his sister rather than a romantic inclination, this feeling means that he will do whatever he percieves neccessary at the time in order to heal any wounds that she may have, regardless of the personal consequence for him.
at 4 Apr 2009: 06:56
You mean unconditional love, right?
Baidn at 4 Apr 2009: 10:26
Yes that is part of the definition.
jou at 27 Apr 2009: 13:06
Jay Naylor is an asshole. He has zero talent. He's just another mindless idiot who, like ALL objectivists, leech off of their god ayn rand's ideas, because he's too stupid and immature to think for himself as a real individual would.
Baidn at 27 Apr 2009: 17:42
As opposed to say, someone who states pointless insults without substance?
Baidn at 27 Apr 2009: 19:11
Though i do have to admit, his story has seemed horribly uninspired as of late.
Ibengmainee at 28 Apr 2009: 19:28
I have followed Jay's art and his comic for a long time. You know why I read it? It's a comic...
I read it cause I think he is a good artist. Saying he sucks as an artist simply because you dislike the man holding the pencil is rather childish.
As for the content of the comic. If you don't like the comic, or the content of the comic. Just stop reading it and leave it be. Why sit there and cause drama? There's nothing wrong with Jay putting his beliefs into his comic. It's his comic, not yours, he doesn't have to write a comic that everyone is going to agree.
Why, just because there isn't constant sexual innuendo or fan service in the comic itself, instead you have to thumb through dialog, it's a bad comic. For crying out loud the man was born on a military base and probably grew up in a home with "left" political views. Are we going to hold that against him too?
It's funny no one ever bashes him about his side projects and mini-comics. Why is that? Cause people get to satiate their need to view his characters screwing each others brains out. Yet no one questions his ability as an artist. Hell, on top of that, you're technically supposed to buy the comics. Yet you can go to practically any forum or image gallery site and see all of his works posted. Yet he didn't pull a Jeremy Bernal and fought to get his works taken down.
Give the man some slack. He is a good artist, whether people want to admit it or not. Just cause you can't agree with his views and he won't change his doesn't mean he's an ego. That's like getting pissed off at a nun for not wanting to convert to Buddhism.
Grow up, and find something more meaningful to argue about than about a man's character. If you don't like the comic, don't read it.
at 28 Apr 2009: 20:32
<i>It's funny no one ever bashes him about his side projects and mini-comics. </i>
People bash them all the time. Apparently you're not looking in the right places. (unfortunately, the 'right' places I'm familiar with have DNP art posted all over them, so linking to them from fchan is probably a no-go)
<i>For crying out loud the man was born on a military base and probably grew up in a home with "left" political views. Are we going to hold that against him too?</i>
Sure. Why should somebody get a free pass just because of how they were raised?
<i>Give the man some slack. He is a good artist, whether people want to admit it or not.</i>
Have you looked around fchan lately? People will masturbate to anything that has genitalia, even if it's scribbled in crayon. The fact that his art is popular doesn't mean he's a good artist, just that he's good at promoting himself.
ibengmainee at 29 Apr 2009: 02:33
I don't look for the right places cause I have no need to bash other peoples work. I just can't stand how people troll and bash a guy and his talent just because they don't like him as a person.
I'm not saying to give him a free pass but it's all the more reason why he probably has as strong of views as he has. I just find it immature that we're going to hate people because of their political views. Who cares. I have talked to the man and I think he's a cool guy. I don't go into political debates with him cause I have no need to. He's given me tips in my art and has given me words of encouragement. I could care less if the guy has different political views.
And what does people masturbating to art have anything to do with an artist's skill level?
That's a clear example or someone bashing the man simply because you don't like him. He's popular for a reason. How many "popular" artists do you know who "scribble in crayon"? And all artists promote themselves, if you're good at it. More power to ya.
Baidn at 29 Apr 2009: 15:51
I think your in a no win scenario here, if you like his art thats fine but plenty of people dont. No use getting bent out of shape over it and theres certainly no point in starting a flame war.
at 29 Apr 2009: 23:09
Uhh... for the sake of answering the OP's question, I don't. Also, I don't care if anyone else does or doesn't like his work.
klokwrkblu at 29 Apr 2009: 23:42
Does anyone even know what he does that makes him so unlikeable, excluding his beliefs; form my point of view, the only reason i can see why people don't like him is because everyone else is doing it.
Does anyone really know, or is it just that people find it fun to pick on him?
at 30 Apr 2009: 00:58
It's not just his beliefs and frequently-messed up art; there comes a point for many people when they finally realize that he's a genuinely terrible human being.
klokwrkblu at 30 Apr 2009: 02:04
klokwrkblu at 30 Apr 2009: 02:35
as in what does he do?
at 30 Apr 2009: 10:40
I don't like his art... I'm the guy from post 56... Again... I don't really care whether other people like him or not... I don't even see why this is an issue...
ibengmainee at 30 Apr 2009: 22:18
This is what I don't understand. I'm not trying to start a flamewar here. But if you're going to bash a guy, at least have a valid reason as to why.
His 'political views' isn't going to cut it. I would understand if he screwed you out of a commission, or things like that. But from the people who constantly rip on him and express their distaste in the man, they can never give any good reasons as to why they dislike him.
Why cause he has strong political views he's a horrible person? How mature is that?
Roland of gilliad at 30 Apr 2009: 22:52
No one on this thread has given a single reason besides his views that he is this "Terrible human Being"
from a purely artistic point of view, what is wrong with it. in fact i venture to say that he is one of the best ive seen.
Besides if you think his art is that bad or his views are that out of wack. take a gander at the ah/ board and see some of the things that are posted there and just take a solid minute to compare and contrast how his stuff is that terrible to, oh i dont know, a dragon raping a bunny while slitting his throat with a piece of glass while shooting up heroine.
P.s. i mean no offence to anyone who likes the ah/ board and i think that some of the artists in it are as good if not better than naylor
at 1 May 2009: 00:12
I direct you to the sexist and racist undertones of his comic. There's also the fact that Jay Naylor thinks Jay Naylor can do no wrong: He stole the Lucy character and made a half-assed attempt to justify it; he only debates people in situations where he has total control, and when someone makes a point he cannot counter he bans them and deletes the posts in question.
But mostly the sexism and racism.
at 1 May 2009: 01:30
>>63 from a purely artistic point of view, what is wrong with it. in fact i venture to say that he is one of the best ive seen.
I'll say that you haven't seen many professional artists, then. You asked, so let's get started...
He almost never draws detailed backgrounds. He only draws backgrounds at all when they're absolutely necessary to establish context; most of his characters are just standing in blank voids. He reuses the same facial expressions over and over again. He's horrible at drawing ears for any species other than cat. His knowledge of anatomy is just bad; many of his females would have broken backs if they were twisted into the positions he puts them in.
As far as the philosophical content of Better Days, the writing is just bad. Go ahead, try to read some of it out loud and think about whether anybody ever actually talks like that. Fisk is a Randian man-god who never does anything wrong. He also serves as a mouthpiece for Naylor's own beliefs, and thus he is always right and never has to suffer consequences for any of his actions (see: setting off a grenade and killing several people in an urban environment. You think the police wouldn't be all over that?). The rest of the characters are one-dimensional foils who can be described in a few words. (Aron: I'm wacky! Beth: I'm a sex-starved goth! Elizabeth: I'm torn between pleasing my parents and being Fisk's loving housewife!)
>>63 oh i dont know, a dragon raping a bunny while slitting his throat with a piece of glass while shooting up heroine.
You're complaining about the /content/ of the art, not the quality.
klokwrkblu at 1 May 2009: 05:36
Thats what Im trying to get at, ia agree with you
Roland of gilliad at 3 May 2009: 19:33
hey, i cant draw like that and i dont know if you can draw better or not, but there are a lot that are under him and nobody is perfect. and its OK for his characters to be perfect. its like complaining that "many of his females would have broken backs if they were twisted into the positions he puts them in." dude, its a world with anthropomorphic people living in Georgia and you complain that they cant bend that way! cut the guy some slack, its not the first time people project their strong views through their characters. and find me one single piece of literature, comic, or movie that you like that dosnt have cliched characters.
at 3 May 2009: 20:51
Your argument is basically "He's not the worst in the entire world, therefore you can't complain about him." That's stupid. I'll call something bad when I see it. I'm not going to cut him any slack just because other people are worse. I don't hold every piece of literature I read or art I see to strict standards -- only the ones that take themselves seriously. Better Days takes the serious segments of its story /very/ seriously.
How well I can draw doesn't matter. That's an ad hominem attack. I could point to hundreds of artists who are better than him; heck, I could point to basic anatomy books. Also, I didn't say that his characters were clichés. Clichés can be done well. His characters are one-dimensional stock characters. They are all driven by a single thought, and the only time they ever do or say anything out of their norm is when Fisk is involved, usually so that they can reinforce that Fisk is Perfect.
Roland of gilliad at 4 May 2009: 21:46
I generally agree with you on his flaws, they are there. but do they really get that in the way? do they make his work so unbearable that you cant enjoy it? and why would you take it so dramatically that his CARTOONS that are not real by the way are in slightly difficult positions sometimes?
at 5 May 2009: 04:02
wait a click, i heard from a guy i know that the cartoonist "Robert Crumb" was similar to Jay in the sense that he was not the most likable person in the world, anyone know how, or is Robert to Jay that a bad comparison?
klokwrkblu at 5 May 2009: 04:15
in an artistic sense i do to.
at 5 May 2009: 15:55
Jay was okay for a while, now he has gotten boring. I dont read his forum because I dont care what he thinks, and the storyline doesnt have enough metaphor or twist to hold my interest. I dont think he is a bad artist, and I dont really care if he's a bad person. If he wants to live vicariously through a character he created let him.
rolland of Gilliad at 5 May 2009: 23:35
i think crumb created felix the cat right? from the 70's?
at 6 May 2009: 00:53
from what i seen of his forums, Matt Sheerer does the same thing, sort of. right?
Your thinking of Fritz the Cat.
at 6 May 2009: 06:57
Jay is like Stepheny Meyer. They both tell you more about themselves than they seem to realise. You either like their creations for how well they relate to you...or you view them in the same morbid curiosity/fascination that you get from watching a train crash.
Roland of Gilliad at 6 May 2009: 17:18
Thats right, thanks. actually, from what i remember that had some pretty adult material on it as well.
at 7 May 2009: 02:55
AAAA HA HA HA!
That was funny,
but who's Stepheny Meyer?
at 7 May 2009: 03:53
She wrote the Twilight book series (you could just Google her name)
at 8 May 2009: 00:55
oh so she wrote some books, ok.
at 8 May 2009: 01:09
or like Garth Marenghi?
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